Can someone be a Catholic AND be Born Again?
May 25, 2012 17:20:52 GMT -5
Post by PrisonerOfHope on May 25, 2012 17:20:52 GMT -5
A little background: I was raised Catholic, and went to Catholic schools for 12 1/2 years...and survived! ;D I think that even as a child I knew something wasn't "quite right," and when I was 19 and went through a major crisis, I was born again...although I had never heard the term and didn't know that was what had happened to me. I simply had a personal encounter with Jesus and became His.
Initially, I tried to draw closer to the Lord in the only ways I knew how: Daily Mass, marathon novenas, saying the rosary often, etc. I also started to read the Bible, and a lot of things in it didn't jibe with what I had been thought. Bit by bit the scales fell from my eyes, and the Holy Spirit eventually led me out of that "church."
I came across the following discussion on one of the far-out Christian boards:
Board moderator's post (which might explain why they're so big on stuff like "visions!") -
If someone is a born again, spirit filled Christian, is all that matters! Remember God knows the heart of the person, and God not interested in the denomination. From every denomination you will find born again people and the lost.
You know, we have Catholics whom frequent here, as well, and therefore, let God do the judging!
By the way, I'm a born again, Holy Spirit filled Catholic! I'm totally devoted to Jesus, and I only pray to God, which is my choice. There are many born again, Holy Spirit filled Catholics.
Catholics are hated by others, whom dont' understand, that the Catholic people are not the problem, the Vatican is, and what goes on there behind closed doors. Yes the last pope Petrus Romanus will be a anti-pope/most likely false prophet.
It's strange for me to be in the position I am at present. There are Catholics that won't accept me, because I am born again, and I believe in the Rapture. Then on the other side, there are some who call themselves born again, and won't accept me because I call myself a born again, Holy Spirit filled Catholic. I'm not here to please anyone, only God. All that matters to me, is what God thinks of me, couldn't care less what others think.
It was God the Father that Baptised me with the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues, not people, therefore, I am only accountable unto God, and no one else. The Lord ask me to stay in the Catholic church and so I did, taught Sunday School, and had a class of 30 Grade 3 students accepted Jesus as their Lord Savior too. Yes the Lord works in mysterious ways...God is so Awesome, and His ways are so much higher than ours.
Now the Lord has called me here, since I'm unable to attend church. My work is to bring all denominations and non denominations to Jesus, as we await His return!
So let go of the stigma, Catholic is not a bad word, it's a name of a denomination, like many other Christian denominations. I do understand now, what Jesus meant when He said, they hated me, therefore they'll hate you too.
John 15:18-21
“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me."
It's a shame, that people like myself and others whom are trying to bring people to Jesus, have to sit quietly, and take and listen to the abuse in order to spread the Gospel, and bring the lost at any cost. I know someone who thought the world of this guy, and when he finds out, I can see that, "Doe eyes startled stare into the headlights shocking look"!!! LOL!!!
No matter what, I love you as my Sister in Christ, and I honestly couldn't care less what denomination you are; since it doesn't matter to God, it doesn't matter to me either.
Blessings & Love in Jesus,
Responder #1:
I didn't know how to respond to your post or if I should, but I really wanted to join the conversation. I want you to listen to what I am about to say and I hope you or anyone else does not take it the wrong way. First of all I want to tell you it doesn't bother me that you are catholic, so as long as the truth is being spoken and the Lord is being glorified. But I must admit, I was surprised. Surprised that you are spirit filled and are catholic. Truth is, there are not that many that I have met. The catholic church has always been considered a false religion, like all false religions it mixes truths with lies. It has been a long standing belief of other Christians that Catholics are not true believers or rather born again, that is why the pilgrims came to this country in the first place to escape England and the church of England, and so religious freedom was born in America.
I want to say that I grew up in a catholic Background, My whole family is catholic, every generation was, its like a belief system that is passed down. In my generation My brother and I were the first to break away, much to the dismay of my parents. I visited a Pentecostal spirit filled church when I was a teenager and I could feel the presence of God there in a way that was never evident at mass. I never looked back, the more I read scripture the more I felt I did not see myself in the catholic religion.
Now you are right to say that Catholicism is a denomination, just like Baptists, Pentecostals, Episcopal,Lutherans, Jehovah Witness, or Mormons. (Huh?) And you are right to say that there are spirit filled and non spirit filled Christians in every denomination, and God alone did that work in you. You say you follow no man, Only God, Not the Vatican not a priest. However, my problem and don't take this personal, because right now I am talking about my own turmoil and questions. I always wondered why align yourself with a false religion if you are spirit filled, why not call yourself something else. Most people I know who found God outside The catholic church either by visiting another church or by personal revelation from God, eventually left the Church, because they did not believe in the ideals, traditions and Religion taught by the Catholic church.
Lately I have had trouble with ministers and ministries on TV allowing Catholic clergy to stand side by side with them, I would ask why are they doing this???Now that might sound offensive to you, but remember I am talking about things I was feeling way before I found out you were catholic. Anyway it bothered me huge, because I felt it sent the wrong message out to people, it gave the catholic church in a sense a seal of approval and I thought that would confuse people. The church besides calling itself the One true Church, has very strict dogma and ordinances that Catholics are expected to keep. They have to have communion, confirmation and other things, also the Catholics revere Mary as queen of the universe, My sister in law is huge on this, she believes in Mary and believes others denominations disrespect Mary. She by her own confession also says that she does not take scripture literally and does not believe everything in the bible, that most stories are allegorical and moralistic fables to encourage us.
In conclusion, I guess what I am saying is that, its not that I don't believe that God can transform a Catholics heart, God can make even the Rocks speak! And there are most certainly dead Christians in what should be spirit filled churches. Even so I am not ready to declare my Catholic family Saved , because they are so obviously not bearing fruits and i am not all together sure I would recommend anyone to become Catholic just because of the Vatican and what they teach.
My mom a few years ago, came to visit me and i told her from the scriptures what it really is to be saved and i told her to make her salvation sure, to be sure she is believing and putting her trust in the right things, I told her make sure your trust is not in Mary, or the Saints, or the Pope, But in Jesus. We prayed to Jesus together and she asked Jesus into her life. However like you she calls herself Catholic still, I have had to accept that and just hope that she like you is not following a Vatican or any man But Christ alone and that by faith she is saved. God said that in the last days he will pour out his spirit, I believe that he is doing just that in you and so many others that fervently want to know him and are open to his will and calling.
OP (Moderator):
I knew this was going to come and now it is causing strife and division, at least it feels this way right now.
Satan has infiltrated, every Christian Denominations...."Chrislam"....Only Jesus when He returns to Earth, and purify, Christianity to what it original was; true followers of Jesus Christ!
Non are perfect not one, it's some are worse than others.
Jesus said you will know them by their fruits! That goes for all Christian Denominations! Remember Satan came to destroy Christians & Jews alike, for they are God's people.
God told me to stay in the Catholic church so that others could come to salvation, just like the class of 30 Children whom accepted Christ, when I taught Sunday Class. Who knows, that might have never accepted Jesus, that day, if I was disobediant, and left the church, instead of doing what I was told to do.
I was born a Catholic, although I'm not a pratising Catholic, and I will continue as one, until the Lord has other plans for me.
Believe it, God has chosen people of different denominations including Catholics, to come to Him and be born again. He also Baptised us with His Holy Spirit, in my case with evidence of tongues.
My allegiance is to Jesus, and I honor His Mother Mary, however, I worship God and God alone.
Satan is having a field day, first attacking my family and now this....However, I will continue to serve God, and nothing, or no one will stop me from doing it.
Judge me by my fruit, like Jesus does!
Responder #2
Just wanted to chime in on this topic peacefully!
Personally I think we all should just "forget" about denominations and different "Church types" for a moment. We are living in the end times people. What died John write in the book of Revelations? If you have " an ear... LISTEN TO WHAT THE WORD SAYS"!
I was raised baptist and was brainwashed thinking all other denominations were false etc.
Ever since I became born again I don't think too much about what each denomination thinks or believes. I have an ear and eyes and believe the WORD!
My wife is Lutheran and it's spun off from Catholics. Even though many people don't agree in certain issues discern for yourself what God is trying to tell you!
Hope this post doesn't start a debate which is against the rules but FORGET DEBOMINATIONS! we are the CHURCH IF YOU BELIEVE JESUS DIED AND ROSE AGAIN AND FOR YIUR SINS! if you believe and repent you dint beef to argue or debate denominations! If they don't believe that then pray they will !
Responder #1 again:
Sorry,
As I said before I just wanted to express why some at first might find it hard to believe in a born again Catholic and How long before you declared this I of ten wondered if it was possible, to be one and still still be of that faith. I was not meaning to attack you, and in fact I am glad you brought it up, because it brings me hope for some of my family. Like I said I don't hate you or dislike you because you are Catholic and My intention here was not to cause strife or attack you, If I have offended any in the process I apologize. What I said I said against the teachings of The Church, which you yourself said you don't subscribe to. And who can understand the mind of God or his ways, his ways are higher that my ways and thoughts above my thoughts, Perhaps Gods intention with you and other Catholics who have turned to Christ with a whole heart is to leave you in the Church so that others may be saved.I don't know. But I do know that the real way to know if someone is born again is by their fruits, that's why sometimes I wish there were no denominations, they serve only as a distraction.
OP (Moderator):
I understand, I'm not offended, others may be, that's why I prefer not to discuss or debate on denominational issues, as stated above in the sub title.
I see everyone one here as my Brother or Sister in Christ, and I don't care what Christian denomination they come from. I've have friends from numerous denominations, including Pentecostals Baptist, one of my closest and dearest friend whom I have know for more than 20 years...etc. It's not from what denomination they come from, it's whom they follow... whom lives in their hearts; Jesus!
God works in mysterious ways, and I wish people would put denominations aside, and look at the fruit the person/s produces. In Heaven there won't be any denominations, there will only be, born again, Holy Spirit Filled followers of Christ, across the board.
My Mom & Dad whom are both with the Lord now, were Catholics. However, both of them accepted the Lord Jesus as their Lord and Savior, what joy that brings to my heart, knowing I'll see both of them soon!
Faith comes by hearing, and when I spoke to them, and let them know how much Jesus loved them, and what they had to do to be born again...it was amazing. Both of them had gone through terrible health issues in their lives, and they accepted the Lord into their lives and hearts without any reservations whatsoever.
My Mom use to love to watch Dr. Jack Van Impe, and sometimes I would have to laugh, because, she prayed the sinners prayer every single time Jack would invite people to pray. I told her Mom, you don't have too, but she just loved to pray with him every time! LOL!! She said she could relate to him because he loved all people including Catholics, whom in the past he himself had said, he persecuted until the Lord changed his heart. His heart was changed, and once he started loving them as well, many Catholics have opened up to receiving the Lord as their Savior.
My prayers are, that all people, from whatever denomination, or non denomination will come to Jesus.
Come and taste and see the Lord is good; He is the only way to salvation, and without His sacrifice, for our sins, we would all be going to Hell.
Thanks be to God for His saving Grace, and for loving me and using me, for all Honor & Glory belongs to God the Father, in Jesus, name I pray!
Amen!
In Jesus' Love,
His humble servant,
So....what's everyone's take on this?
Initially, I tried to draw closer to the Lord in the only ways I knew how: Daily Mass, marathon novenas, saying the rosary often, etc. I also started to read the Bible, and a lot of things in it didn't jibe with what I had been thought. Bit by bit the scales fell from my eyes, and the Holy Spirit eventually led me out of that "church."
I came across the following discussion on one of the far-out Christian boards:
Board moderator's post (which might explain why they're so big on stuff like "visions!") -
If someone is a born again, spirit filled Christian, is all that matters! Remember God knows the heart of the person, and God not interested in the denomination. From every denomination you will find born again people and the lost.
You know, we have Catholics whom frequent here, as well, and therefore, let God do the judging!
By the way, I'm a born again, Holy Spirit filled Catholic! I'm totally devoted to Jesus, and I only pray to God, which is my choice. There are many born again, Holy Spirit filled Catholics.
Catholics are hated by others, whom dont' understand, that the Catholic people are not the problem, the Vatican is, and what goes on there behind closed doors. Yes the last pope Petrus Romanus will be a anti-pope/most likely false prophet.
It's strange for me to be in the position I am at present. There are Catholics that won't accept me, because I am born again, and I believe in the Rapture. Then on the other side, there are some who call themselves born again, and won't accept me because I call myself a born again, Holy Spirit filled Catholic. I'm not here to please anyone, only God. All that matters to me, is what God thinks of me, couldn't care less what others think.
It was God the Father that Baptised me with the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues, not people, therefore, I am only accountable unto God, and no one else. The Lord ask me to stay in the Catholic church and so I did, taught Sunday School, and had a class of 30 Grade 3 students accepted Jesus as their Lord Savior too. Yes the Lord works in mysterious ways...God is so Awesome, and His ways are so much higher than ours.
Now the Lord has called me here, since I'm unable to attend church. My work is to bring all denominations and non denominations to Jesus, as we await His return!
So let go of the stigma, Catholic is not a bad word, it's a name of a denomination, like many other Christian denominations. I do understand now, what Jesus meant when He said, they hated me, therefore they'll hate you too.
John 15:18-21
“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me."
It's a shame, that people like myself and others whom are trying to bring people to Jesus, have to sit quietly, and take and listen to the abuse in order to spread the Gospel, and bring the lost at any cost. I know someone who thought the world of this guy, and when he finds out, I can see that, "Doe eyes startled stare into the headlights shocking look"!!! LOL!!!
No matter what, I love you as my Sister in Christ, and I honestly couldn't care less what denomination you are; since it doesn't matter to God, it doesn't matter to me either.
Blessings & Love in Jesus,
Responder #1:
I didn't know how to respond to your post or if I should, but I really wanted to join the conversation. I want you to listen to what I am about to say and I hope you or anyone else does not take it the wrong way. First of all I want to tell you it doesn't bother me that you are catholic, so as long as the truth is being spoken and the Lord is being glorified. But I must admit, I was surprised. Surprised that you are spirit filled and are catholic. Truth is, there are not that many that I have met. The catholic church has always been considered a false religion, like all false religions it mixes truths with lies. It has been a long standing belief of other Christians that Catholics are not true believers or rather born again, that is why the pilgrims came to this country in the first place to escape England and the church of England, and so religious freedom was born in America.
I want to say that I grew up in a catholic Background, My whole family is catholic, every generation was, its like a belief system that is passed down. In my generation My brother and I were the first to break away, much to the dismay of my parents. I visited a Pentecostal spirit filled church when I was a teenager and I could feel the presence of God there in a way that was never evident at mass. I never looked back, the more I read scripture the more I felt I did not see myself in the catholic religion.
Now you are right to say that Catholicism is a denomination, just like Baptists, Pentecostals, Episcopal,Lutherans, Jehovah Witness, or Mormons. (Huh?) And you are right to say that there are spirit filled and non spirit filled Christians in every denomination, and God alone did that work in you. You say you follow no man, Only God, Not the Vatican not a priest. However, my problem and don't take this personal, because right now I am talking about my own turmoil and questions. I always wondered why align yourself with a false religion if you are spirit filled, why not call yourself something else. Most people I know who found God outside The catholic church either by visiting another church or by personal revelation from God, eventually left the Church, because they did not believe in the ideals, traditions and Religion taught by the Catholic church.
Lately I have had trouble with ministers and ministries on TV allowing Catholic clergy to stand side by side with them, I would ask why are they doing this???Now that might sound offensive to you, but remember I am talking about things I was feeling way before I found out you were catholic. Anyway it bothered me huge, because I felt it sent the wrong message out to people, it gave the catholic church in a sense a seal of approval and I thought that would confuse people. The church besides calling itself the One true Church, has very strict dogma and ordinances that Catholics are expected to keep. They have to have communion, confirmation and other things, also the Catholics revere Mary as queen of the universe, My sister in law is huge on this, she believes in Mary and believes others denominations disrespect Mary. She by her own confession also says that she does not take scripture literally and does not believe everything in the bible, that most stories are allegorical and moralistic fables to encourage us.
In conclusion, I guess what I am saying is that, its not that I don't believe that God can transform a Catholics heart, God can make even the Rocks speak! And there are most certainly dead Christians in what should be spirit filled churches. Even so I am not ready to declare my Catholic family Saved , because they are so obviously not bearing fruits and i am not all together sure I would recommend anyone to become Catholic just because of the Vatican and what they teach.
My mom a few years ago, came to visit me and i told her from the scriptures what it really is to be saved and i told her to make her salvation sure, to be sure she is believing and putting her trust in the right things, I told her make sure your trust is not in Mary, or the Saints, or the Pope, But in Jesus. We prayed to Jesus together and she asked Jesus into her life. However like you she calls herself Catholic still, I have had to accept that and just hope that she like you is not following a Vatican or any man But Christ alone and that by faith she is saved. God said that in the last days he will pour out his spirit, I believe that he is doing just that in you and so many others that fervently want to know him and are open to his will and calling.
OP (Moderator):
I knew this was going to come and now it is causing strife and division, at least it feels this way right now.
Satan has infiltrated, every Christian Denominations...."Chrislam"....Only Jesus when He returns to Earth, and purify, Christianity to what it original was; true followers of Jesus Christ!
Non are perfect not one, it's some are worse than others.
Jesus said you will know them by their fruits! That goes for all Christian Denominations! Remember Satan came to destroy Christians & Jews alike, for they are God's people.
God told me to stay in the Catholic church so that others could come to salvation, just like the class of 30 Children whom accepted Christ, when I taught Sunday Class. Who knows, that might have never accepted Jesus, that day, if I was disobediant, and left the church, instead of doing what I was told to do.
I was born a Catholic, although I'm not a pratising Catholic, and I will continue as one, until the Lord has other plans for me.
Believe it, God has chosen people of different denominations including Catholics, to come to Him and be born again. He also Baptised us with His Holy Spirit, in my case with evidence of tongues.
My allegiance is to Jesus, and I honor His Mother Mary, however, I worship God and God alone.
Satan is having a field day, first attacking my family and now this....However, I will continue to serve God, and nothing, or no one will stop me from doing it.
Judge me by my fruit, like Jesus does!
Responder #2
Just wanted to chime in on this topic peacefully!
Personally I think we all should just "forget" about denominations and different "Church types" for a moment. We are living in the end times people. What died John write in the book of Revelations? If you have " an ear... LISTEN TO WHAT THE WORD SAYS"!
I was raised baptist and was brainwashed thinking all other denominations were false etc.
Ever since I became born again I don't think too much about what each denomination thinks or believes. I have an ear and eyes and believe the WORD!
My wife is Lutheran and it's spun off from Catholics. Even though many people don't agree in certain issues discern for yourself what God is trying to tell you!
Hope this post doesn't start a debate which is against the rules but FORGET DEBOMINATIONS! we are the CHURCH IF YOU BELIEVE JESUS DIED AND ROSE AGAIN AND FOR YIUR SINS! if you believe and repent you dint beef to argue or debate denominations! If they don't believe that then pray they will !
Responder #1 again:
Sorry,
As I said before I just wanted to express why some at first might find it hard to believe in a born again Catholic and How long before you declared this I of ten wondered if it was possible, to be one and still still be of that faith. I was not meaning to attack you, and in fact I am glad you brought it up, because it brings me hope for some of my family. Like I said I don't hate you or dislike you because you are Catholic and My intention here was not to cause strife or attack you, If I have offended any in the process I apologize. What I said I said against the teachings of The Church, which you yourself said you don't subscribe to. And who can understand the mind of God or his ways, his ways are higher that my ways and thoughts above my thoughts, Perhaps Gods intention with you and other Catholics who have turned to Christ with a whole heart is to leave you in the Church so that others may be saved.I don't know. But I do know that the real way to know if someone is born again is by their fruits, that's why sometimes I wish there were no denominations, they serve only as a distraction.
OP (Moderator):
I understand, I'm not offended, others may be, that's why I prefer not to discuss or debate on denominational issues, as stated above in the sub title.
I see everyone one here as my Brother or Sister in Christ, and I don't care what Christian denomination they come from. I've have friends from numerous denominations, including Pentecostals Baptist, one of my closest and dearest friend whom I have know for more than 20 years...etc. It's not from what denomination they come from, it's whom they follow... whom lives in their hearts; Jesus!
God works in mysterious ways, and I wish people would put denominations aside, and look at the fruit the person/s produces. In Heaven there won't be any denominations, there will only be, born again, Holy Spirit Filled followers of Christ, across the board.
My Mom & Dad whom are both with the Lord now, were Catholics. However, both of them accepted the Lord Jesus as their Lord and Savior, what joy that brings to my heart, knowing I'll see both of them soon!
Faith comes by hearing, and when I spoke to them, and let them know how much Jesus loved them, and what they had to do to be born again...it was amazing. Both of them had gone through terrible health issues in their lives, and they accepted the Lord into their lives and hearts without any reservations whatsoever.
My Mom use to love to watch Dr. Jack Van Impe, and sometimes I would have to laugh, because, she prayed the sinners prayer every single time Jack would invite people to pray. I told her Mom, you don't have too, but she just loved to pray with him every time! LOL!! She said she could relate to him because he loved all people including Catholics, whom in the past he himself had said, he persecuted until the Lord changed his heart. His heart was changed, and once he started loving them as well, many Catholics have opened up to receiving the Lord as their Savior.
My prayers are, that all people, from whatever denomination, or non denomination will come to Jesus.
Come and taste and see the Lord is good; He is the only way to salvation, and without His sacrifice, for our sins, we would all be going to Hell.
Thanks be to God for His saving Grace, and for loving me and using me, for all Honor & Glory belongs to God the Father, in Jesus, name I pray!
Amen!
In Jesus' Love,
His humble servant,
So....what's everyone's take on this?