The No-Kids-Allowed Movement is Spreading

[PrisonerOfHope]

This seems to be a hot topic, and I can't say I blame people. Parents these days are afraid to be parents - they think they're their kids' "friend". As a result, discipline and respect are a thing of the past. Personally, I think we our nation of spoiled brats is largely thanks to Dr. Spock.

Here's one article on the subject; if you click on the link, it'll lead you to several more:

"The no-kids-allowed movement is spreading

by Piper Weiss, Shine Staff, on Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:52pm PDT

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(photo by ThinkStock)

(photo by ThinkStock)
What's the matter with kids today and why doesn't anyone want them around? In June, Malaysia Airlines banned babies from many of their first class cabins, prompting other major airlines to consider similar policies.

Lately, complaints about screaming kids are being taken seriously, not only by airlines, but by hotels, movie theaters, restaurants, and even grocery stores.

Read more about restaurants around the country banning kids.

Earlier this month, McDain's, a Pittsburgh area restaurant that banned kids under 6 became a mascot for the no-kids-zone movement.

According to a Pittsburgh local news poll, more than half of area residents were in favor of the ban. And now big business is paying attention.

"Brat bans could well be the next frontier in destination and leisure-product marketing," writes Robert Klara in an article on the child-free trend in AdWeek.

Klara points to Leavethembehind.com, a travel website for kid-free vacations, with a massive list of yoga retreats, luxury resorts and bargain hotels around the world that ban children.

"Call me a grinch, a misanthrope, a DINK (dual-income-no-kids), or the anti-cute-police, but I hate (hate a thousand times over) ill-behaved children/infants/screaming banshees in upscale restaurants (ok, anywhere, really, but I don’t want any death threats)," writes Charlotte Savino on Travel and Leisure's blog. She lists a slew of a popular destination restaurants with kid-free areas and policies for travelers looking for quiet vacation dining.

Traveling is one thing, but what about in kids' own hometowns? Should kids been banned from local movie theaters, like they were at a recent adults-only Harry Potter screening? In Texas, one cinema chain has even flipped the model, banning kids under six altogether, except on specified "baby days".

Even running errands with toddlers may be changing. This summer Whole Foods stores in Missouri are offering child-free shopping hours. Kids are allowed inside but childcare service is available for parents who want to shop kid-free. (Whole Foods contacted Shine to clarify that the company does not have a kid's ban. The store's child-free shopping hours are "about giving parents a break, not about clearing out the kids for those who want a child-free zone," says a spokesperson for the grocery chain.)

Meanwhile in Florida, a controversy brews over whether kids can be banned from a condominium's outdoor area. That's right, some people don't even want kids outdoors.

When did kids become the equivalent of second-hand smoke? Blame a wave of childless adults with money to spare. "Empty nesters continue to wield a huge swath of discretionary spending dollars, and population dips in first-world countries mean more childless couples than ever," writes AdWeek's Klara.

Catering to the child-free community may be good for business but is it good for parents? It could help narrow choices and make kid-friendly environments even kid-friendlier. And let's be honest, babies won't miss flying first class. They won't even remember it. But their moms and dads will.

Most parents with young children have self-imposed limits on spending and leisure. This new movement imposes limits set by the public. And the public isn't as child-friendly as it used to be. As businesses respond to their new breed of 'first-class' clientele, are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?"

shine.yahoo.com/channel/parenting/the-no-kids-allowed-movement-is-spreading-2516110/

Personally, I think it's a great idea to have restaurants where children are not permitted. I don't want to spend good money for a relaxing night out, and have it ruined by someone's out-of-control, screaming brat. Not to mention, there are parents who hire sitters for the night to get away from their kids - why should they be subjected to other people's kids' tantrums?
Yes, some children are polite and well-behaved, but they're in the minority.

The subject is on fire at ATS; the thread is growing so fast I can't keep up with it:

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread733556/pg1

What do you all think about this?

[baydoll]

Well on one hand I think this is a great idea considering the behavior of some of these little monsters uh I mean children and their totally oblivious parents in restaurants stores ect. But on the other hand there are a lot of parents (responsible ones who teach their children to BEHAVE) who can't afford sitters and/or don't have sitters to watch their children so they can go to the store, restaurants, ect by themselves. Which was my case for many years when my kids were younger. I had to take them everywhere with me.

And I made them behave.

[shann0]

I agree, banning all children is unnecessary. Ban only the ones who are being disruptive. Kids are people too, and they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

[baydoll]

It sure would make a shopping/dining/whatever a more enjoyable experience for people who are there without kids.

[PrisonerOfHope]

I think business owners should be free to cater to whomever they wish and if they want to ban children it's their right to do so. Ill-behaved kids are in the majority these days, and it could get very dicey for a restaurant owner to try and oust one family with kids who are acting like demons and leave another family with kids who are behaving themselves at the next table alone - the demon kids' parents could get very ugly and nasty. And frankly, a lot of adults like to go places where there are no kids - well-behaved or not - for an evening out.

Back in NY there was a chain of restaurants called "The Ground Round." There were two sides: one side included a bar, and was for adults only. The other side was for families with kids, and they provided crayons, coloring books, and whatever. It was nice to enjoy a meal in peace, without the disruption of kids acting up. It's a good solution - provided the restaurant is large enough to be split like that.

Part of the problem is, the brats' parents see their little darlings as perfect little angels who can do no wrong. Years ago I was in a store where I had run in to pick up something, while my husband parked the car. I suddenly felt a sting on my leg - a demon child had come up to me and hit me! I didn't know the little monster - never saw her before - and shouted at her, "What do you think you're doing, you little brat?" Well! Along come mommy and grandma, telling me they're going to stick their foot up my butt for yelling at their little darling! Long story short - my husband showed up at about the same time as the store manager, trying to break up the fight. ;D The demon's mother and grandma saw nothing wrong with what the kid had done; she was just "upset." I fail to see how I should have to suffer because their brat is angry because she wasn't getting her way about something. (She's probably in Attica by now.)

And don't get me started on people who let their kids run wild through the supermarket, or just don't watch them. Hit a kid with your cart because he's too small for you to see him, and it's your fault, not the parent's for not keeping the kid with them. How about the mother who thought it was "cute" when her brat laid down on top of a shelf of bread, crushing every single loaf? (Which then couldn't be sold...and the cost of the loss was passed on to the other customers?) Or see nothing wrong with their kids opening packages of cookies or candies, taking a few, and leaving the rest?

A lot of malls are banning kids under a certain age on weekends and evenings if they're without an adult; a local movie theater just recently announced they're doing so as well. It's a great idea - there are packs of them roaming about, stealing whatever they can and intimidating people. I used to see them at Penney's - and since they were too young to drive, no doubt some parent dumped them off because they wanted to have kids, but didn't want to be parents.

Sure, there are some kids who are polite and well-behaved - but they're in the minority. Until parents learn to be parents (and I don't see that happening in this self-indulgent society), it's not going to get better...just worse and worse, given the sense of entitlement these monsters are raised with - the world owes them, simply because they exist.

Discipline? What's that? I used to take the neighbor's two kids on outings, they often came over, and we did things together almost every day, sometimes with other kids on the block joining us. I gave them the opportunity to earn some money for Christmas if they did some work around the house; they'd have gotten some cash, and then we were going to go out for a nice lunch (my treat) and to the mall so they could shop. The boy wanted to get started right away, so I told him to do some work in the yard. He came in and asked if he could wash the car. It didn't need it, but..... So, I gave him my key ring, which had the garage key on it, so he could get the bucket and car soap, and told him to bring it right back.

An hour or so later the kid comes by to tell me he's done, and he'll see me later. Fine. The next day I had to go someplace...but couldn't find my keys. I usually clip them onto my purse, but they weren't there. I looked for hours, then remembered I had given them to the kid. Of course, he wasn't home, so I looked and looked, then thought maybe he had left them in the garage lock. Nope, not there...but he DID take out my new lawn mower and leave it outside, left my yard tools in the mud to rust, left the water hose uncoiled, and had done NONE of the work that he was supposed to. I finally found my keys (house, car, post office box) - tossed carelessly in the driveway!

The kid came home, and I went over, scolded him, and told him to march right over and put away the hose, lawn mower, and other things. So he stomps over, does it, and then I looked out to see he had pulled up the campaign signs from his lawn (I had them working on a Congressional campaign with me) and tossed them on my porch. The brat hasn't spoken to me to this day, nor has his sister!
I found out from other kids on the block that the girl is telling everyone that I'm a *itch, and that I probably poisoned the birthday cake I had made her.

So....no money for shopping. No more outings - not the county fair, not movies, not museums, not the planetarium...nowhere. No more fun things to do. Their Christmas gifts (I had four for each child) went to Toys for Tots. The girl wore the same too-small clothes all winter; I didn't take her shopping for something that fit. No birthday cakes this year....and their mother can't afford to get them one. (She can barely make the mortgage and is often late - I don't know why she bought a house that cost as much as it does - they're on food stamps, for goodness sake!) They spent the summer in their yard, instead of going out places with me; their mother works and can't afford to take them anywhere even if she were home. It's not my loss - it's theirs - because they're being raised to think that they can do anything they want and don't have to answer to anyone. They still haven't figured out that actions have consequences, and apparently their mother isn't doing anything to teach them.

Sadly, most kids these days are like that.

[wateredseeds]

Yeah, that's pretty much how i feel. It was really bad when i worked for my old company....and kids would come into the stores and the parents wouldn't watch them. If they were being disruptive i'd take the child up front and call the parents on the intercom...HOW EMBARRASING FOR THEM Now i don't have to worry about that so much...because most of the parents that come into my store are good christian parents...that watch their kids, or go sit them at the back of the store where i play veggietales on the tv.