Blasphemy from Emergent Leader Tony Jones
Feb 28, 2013 0:42:24 GMT -5
Post by PrisonerOfHope on Feb 28, 2013 0:42:24 GMT -5
Tony Jones’ fascinating exchange with Chris Rosebrough
Emergent leader Tony Jones has had a busy, blasphemous week. Monday, he wrote a blog piece calling on Christian leaders to join him in relaxing our moral uppityness over fornication and adultery. Yesterday, he outright denied the atoning sacrifice of the cross, and what Jesus did to pay for our sins.
Today in his blog titled, The Cross Is Not Necessary [Questions That Haunt], Jones answered a letter from his reader:
You’re asking if God required Jesus’ death. The short answer is No.
No, Jesus’ death was not required in order for human beings to be reconciled to God.
Sometimes enough is enough, and even the most patient of apologists must stand up to the outright lies Jones has been spreading to his vast audience. That’s what Fighting for the Faith’s Chris Rosebrough did in the comments section of Jones’ article. What happened when Chris shared the truth of God’s breathed-out Word? Jone’s erased those words of truth.
Here is that exchange:
Comments
Chris Rosebrough (@piratechristian) says:
Tony,
What is your source for these claims of yours? Is it your own mind and your own theological speculations? I don’t see you citing a single Biblical passage that backs up any of your assertions. Therefore, these ideas of yours are not Christian doctrine nor do they represent Christian Theology.
I remember your more overt postmodern days where you and others in the emergent movement would talk about having a ‘humble hermeneutic’. You’ve apparently moved on from that because what you say here is not at all based in hermeneutics, no Biblical passages are quoted or referenced. I’d argue that you’re now engaging in ‘arrogant assertions’ and have the hubris to think that you’re ideas and speculations are the seat of Christian doctrine and theology. Seriously, when you made these assertions were you speaking ex cathedra?
I get that you’re sharing your beliefs and your ideas on your blog. But why on earth should I think for a moment that your beliefs and your ideas are true or have any bearing on true Christian doctrine? I can’t think of any. We’re both human beings and have the exact same limitations.
Here’s is what the God-Breathed (θεόπνευστος) Word of God says on this matter:
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Chris, I have deleted all of the Bible verses that you've cut and pasted from elsewhere. You are free to come and troll here on my blog, but you cannot copy-and-paste from elsewhere. We can all read the Bible for ourselves. Also, prepare to be ignored. Those of us to spend time on this blog daily have changed a lot since your last visit. We don't really argue with trolls anymore.]
Since, God’s Word says that Jesus’ death on the cross was a propitiation for our sins and that without out the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sins and that those who do not trust Christ for the forgiveness of their sins remain under the wrath of God…Ergo, Christ’s death on the cross was absolutely necessary to reconcile us to God as 2 Corinthians 5:18–21 says “[DELETED]”
IF you’ve got something MORE authoritative than the God-Breathed Word of God then produce it. One thing is certain, your theological musings have ZERO authority when it comes to deciding what is true Christian doctrine and theology. And since your musings are directly contradicted by God’s Word, its clear that you are in deep deep error.
Chris Rosebrough (@piratechristian) says:
Tony,
Since when did posting Biblical passages in your meta become a practice that was banned and forbidden and equated with trolling? I posted them in order that the conversation would be able to continue without requiring people to leave conversation and go look up what the passages say. I find that practice to be rude and inconsiderate.
That being said, I think you’ve made my point by deleting the Bible verses. It’s clear that you don’t what God’s Word to get in the way of your theological assertions. Forgive me for confusing you with facts and not recognizing that your mind is already made up and you’re not going to allow YOUR theology to be corrected by God’s Word.
I do not recognize your authority to craft and create Christian theology and dogma.
Tony Jones says: It’s not the Bible that gets deleted. It’s the copy-paste technique. No one asked for your recognition. In fact, your endorsement would be an embarrassment.
Chris Rosebrough (@piratechristian) says:
Tony, I assure you that I will never embarrass you by recognizing your authority to craft and create Christian Theology and dogma. But, what should embarrass you is that you actually believe that you possess that authority. Yet, nothing could be further from the truth.
Jay Bakker says:
Chris, Have you ever studied the history of the canon? Would you agree that the Bible is a flawed collection of writings?
Thanks Jay Bakker for that last comment. Last week, Jay also publicly denied the atonement in an interview in the Christian Post.
Chris has kindly shared with me the Scripture verses that Tony deleted:
“My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected.” (1 John 2:1–5)
“without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.” (Hebrews 9:22)
“Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.” (Hebrews 9:23–28)
“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” (John 3:36)
standupforthetruth.com/2013/02/tony-jones-fascinating-exchange-with-chris-rosebrough/
Emergent leader Tony Jones has had a busy, blasphemous week. Monday, he wrote a blog piece calling on Christian leaders to join him in relaxing our moral uppityness over fornication and adultery. Yesterday, he outright denied the atoning sacrifice of the cross, and what Jesus did to pay for our sins.
Today in his blog titled, The Cross Is Not Necessary [Questions That Haunt], Jones answered a letter from his reader:
You’re asking if God required Jesus’ death. The short answer is No.
No, Jesus’ death was not required in order for human beings to be reconciled to God.
Sometimes enough is enough, and even the most patient of apologists must stand up to the outright lies Jones has been spreading to his vast audience. That’s what Fighting for the Faith’s Chris Rosebrough did in the comments section of Jones’ article. What happened when Chris shared the truth of God’s breathed-out Word? Jone’s erased those words of truth.
Here is that exchange:
Comments
Chris Rosebrough (@piratechristian) says:
Tony,
What is your source for these claims of yours? Is it your own mind and your own theological speculations? I don’t see you citing a single Biblical passage that backs up any of your assertions. Therefore, these ideas of yours are not Christian doctrine nor do they represent Christian Theology.
I remember your more overt postmodern days where you and others in the emergent movement would talk about having a ‘humble hermeneutic’. You’ve apparently moved on from that because what you say here is not at all based in hermeneutics, no Biblical passages are quoted or referenced. I’d argue that you’re now engaging in ‘arrogant assertions’ and have the hubris to think that you’re ideas and speculations are the seat of Christian doctrine and theology. Seriously, when you made these assertions were you speaking ex cathedra?
I get that you’re sharing your beliefs and your ideas on your blog. But why on earth should I think for a moment that your beliefs and your ideas are true or have any bearing on true Christian doctrine? I can’t think of any. We’re both human beings and have the exact same limitations.
Here’s is what the God-Breathed (θεόπνευστος) Word of God says on this matter:
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Chris, I have deleted all of the Bible verses that you've cut and pasted from elsewhere. You are free to come and troll here on my blog, but you cannot copy-and-paste from elsewhere. We can all read the Bible for ourselves. Also, prepare to be ignored. Those of us to spend time on this blog daily have changed a lot since your last visit. We don't really argue with trolls anymore.]
Since, God’s Word says that Jesus’ death on the cross was a propitiation for our sins and that without out the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sins and that those who do not trust Christ for the forgiveness of their sins remain under the wrath of God…Ergo, Christ’s death on the cross was absolutely necessary to reconcile us to God as 2 Corinthians 5:18–21 says “[DELETED]”
IF you’ve got something MORE authoritative than the God-Breathed Word of God then produce it. One thing is certain, your theological musings have ZERO authority when it comes to deciding what is true Christian doctrine and theology. And since your musings are directly contradicted by God’s Word, its clear that you are in deep deep error.
Chris Rosebrough (@piratechristian) says:
Tony,
Since when did posting Biblical passages in your meta become a practice that was banned and forbidden and equated with trolling? I posted them in order that the conversation would be able to continue without requiring people to leave conversation and go look up what the passages say. I find that practice to be rude and inconsiderate.
That being said, I think you’ve made my point by deleting the Bible verses. It’s clear that you don’t what God’s Word to get in the way of your theological assertions. Forgive me for confusing you with facts and not recognizing that your mind is already made up and you’re not going to allow YOUR theology to be corrected by God’s Word.
I do not recognize your authority to craft and create Christian theology and dogma.
Tony Jones says: It’s not the Bible that gets deleted. It’s the copy-paste technique. No one asked for your recognition. In fact, your endorsement would be an embarrassment.
Chris Rosebrough (@piratechristian) says:
Tony, I assure you that I will never embarrass you by recognizing your authority to craft and create Christian Theology and dogma. But, what should embarrass you is that you actually believe that you possess that authority. Yet, nothing could be further from the truth.
Jay Bakker says:
Chris, Have you ever studied the history of the canon? Would you agree that the Bible is a flawed collection of writings?
Thanks Jay Bakker for that last comment. Last week, Jay also publicly denied the atonement in an interview in the Christian Post.
Chris has kindly shared with me the Scripture verses that Tony deleted:
“My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected.” (1 John 2:1–5)
“without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.” (Hebrews 9:22)
“Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.” (Hebrews 9:23–28)
“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” (John 3:36)
standupforthetruth.com/2013/02/tony-jones-fascinating-exchange-with-chris-rosebrough/
