Notes From my Classes at School of Prophets

[PrisonerOfHope]

Last week I attended two intensive classes at the School of Prophets ("prophets" in the sense of those who share the Word, not those who are given new revelation, as that office is closed), taught by Jimmy DeYoung (The Feasts of Israel) and Dave James (Dispensationalism).

I'll share some of my notes; these are in no particular order. Both classes were wonderful and very informative. To be honest, I did have a problem with some of the things that Dr. DeYoung said; my comments are in red, and your thoughts are welcome. (If you comment on something in particular, please quote the section you're referring to.)

There are quite a few notes; I'll post some of them every day over the next few days.

Matt. 24:3-14 - These events describe the Tribulation and these verses are written for the Jews. Interesting that we're seeing these things have already begun - surely the rapture is at the door!

Dr. DeYoung had an interesting take on Matt. 24:36 (the part about only the Father knowing the day or the hour) - he doesn't believe it refers to Jesus' return; he suggested that in might pertain to the time when heaven and earth pass away, which is mentioned in Matt. 24:35.

Matt. 24:37: "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." This refers to the lost being removed to judgment. Same with Matt. 24:40-41 (a Scripture I had a nice conversation with Dave James about) as well - it is, in a sense, a rapture...but one you don't want to make, because the lost will be the ones who are "raptured" to judgment!

Matt. 24:42: "Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming." Dr. DeYoung opined that the refers to those who are not looking for the Lord and are lost.

Matt. 25 - regarding the wise and foolish virgins - he sees those against whom the door was shut as those who are lost, as evidenced by, "I do not know you" in Matt. 25:12.

He does seem to be quite dogmatic about Jesus returning to earth on the Feast of Trumpets, is coronated as king on Rosh Hashanah (the civic new year and a time to celebrate the creation of man), and then establishing His kingdom on Tabernacles. The feasts must be fulfilled in the proper sequence.

The silver trumpets mentioned in Numbers 10 were created for the Feast of Trumpets.

The Temple in Jerusalem was 18 stories high, and when the doors were open it was possible to see the veil that separated the Holy of Holies by the light of the Menorah. The tearing of veil would have been visible from the cross.

Matt. 27:52-53 (the part about the graves opening) is out of context; this didn't happen until after the resurrection.

Dr. DeYoung sees the Gospels as being an extension of the Old Testament, as the church wasn't in existence yet and Jesus was primarily addressing His teachings to the Jews.

Even if the Jews had accepted Him as Messiah, He would have had to be crucified anyway, as the shedding of His blood was necessary for redemption. Perhaps the Romans would have crucified him for some reason, or the High Priests might have been jealous of Him and still had Him killed.

[popcorn]

Matt. 24:37: "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." This refers to the lost being removed to judgment. Same with Matt. 24:40-41 (a Scripture I had a nice conversation with Dave James about) as well - it is, in a sense, a rapture...but one you don't want to make, because the lost will be the ones who are "raptured" to judgment!

I agree, I think that is part of the second resurrection a removal to waite until the thousand years are up.

Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[PrisonerOfHope]

I agree, I think that is part of the second resurrection a removal to waite until the thousand years are up.

What both Dr. DeYoung and Dave James said was that they would be removed to Sheol and the end of the Tribulation to await The Great White Throne Judgement.

[popcorn]

Seems right to me, the best my brain can comprehend.
The dead rise at the end of a thousand years, not the dead in Christ.

[PrisonerOfHope]

One of the best sessions was about the Pesach (Passover) meal. A reproduction of the Upper Room (cataluma) was set up, and men from the class were "volunteered" to play the part of the Apostles. Dave James was "Jesus" and Jimmy DeYoung Jr. was Peter.

Forget about all the "Last Supper" paintings you've seen. The table - which was maybe 18"-24" high was U shaped. The place of honor was next to the person on the end, sort of like this, and we know from Scripture where four of the attendees were sitting:

************
* *
Judas * *
Jesus * *
John * * Peter

The diners reclined on cushions and would lean on their left arm or against the chest of the person on their left - thus, Jesus would have been leaning on Judas. (Extra little fact: "Abraham's bosom" refers to having fellowship with Abraham and the other OT saints in heaven; in enjoying a meal with him, the person next to him would lean on his bosom - that's where the term came from.)

The "sop" referred to in Scripture is actually a stew made of the Passover lamb; the rabbis said it was acceptable to make it into a stew, as long as each piece was at least as large as an olive.

The person to the right of the guest of honor (John, in this case) had several duties, including protecting the guest of honor and making certain that all the other guests had whatever they needed. The seat that Peter had was of the lowest honor, and the person who occupied it was expected to wash the feet of the other attendees.

The bread, of course, had no leaven, and wasn't even like matzo - it had to be baked in 17 minutes. The "wine" that was used was freshy-squeezed grape juice mixed with water, because it's leaven that causes the fermentation of wine. Leaven in the Bible represents sin; thus, when Jesus said, "This is my body...this is my blood," he was referring to the fact that He was without sin. Six cups of this wine are drunk at the Passover meal, with the third cup called the "Cup of Redemption."

Oh, when Jesus told two disciples to follow a man bearing a pitcher of water (Mark 14:13), he would have been relatively easy to pick out of the crowd because carrying water was considered women's work.

"Palm Sunday" and "Good Friday" both come from Catholic tradition; it's clear from studying the Scriptures and counting forward the days (John 12) that the Triumphal Entry was on Saturday (Jesus entered Jerusalem as potentate), He drove the moneychangers from the Temple on Sunday (they wouldn't have been working on Saturday) in His role as High Priest, and on Monday - at the Olivet Discourse - He fulfilled His role of Prophet.

Passover, when the lambs were sacrificed, was on Thursday (actually beginning on what we would consider Wednesday evening, as the Jewish day is evening/morning), Friday was the Feast of Unleavened Bread (a holy convocation and considered as a Sabbath), and Sunday was the Feast of First Fruits - with Jesus being the first to rise from the dead.

There were about 500 people crucified every day, hung on olive trees. (BWT, "Gethsemane" means "oilive press.") The reason Joseph of Arimathaea was in such a rush to claim Jesus' body was because after the crucified people were dead, the trees were set on fire (with the bodies on them).

Although Passover is one of the feasts that is supposed to be observed forever (along with the Feast of Weeks and the Feast of Tabernacles), it wasn't celebrated again after the Jews left Egypt until they reached Gilgal, because they didn't have access to wheat.

What was interesting was in a taped interview with an Orthodox rabbi, it came out that Jews of modern times pretty much ignore the Feast of Weeks (Pentacost) and don't bother to observe it.

The Jewish New Year is in Nisan, and Passover represents personal salvation. The Jewish Civic New Year is on Yom Kippur, and represents national salvation.

Extra fact: While in the wilderness, headed for the Promised Land, 89 people a day died.


More tomorrow!

[baydoll]

Matt. 25 - regarding the wise and foolish virgins - he sees those against whom the door was shut as those who are lost, as evidenced by, "I do not know you" in Matt. 25:12.

I've made a thread about this a while ago on here, since then I've come to a different way of thinking on what this verse means. I don't believe this is the church at all (notice these are virgins, not the bride herself) but Christians (and Christians in name only) during the Tribulation. The oil represents their love and obedience for Christ during that time period. The wise kept their 'oil' or love of Christ going, while the foolish did not (thus running out). Therefore when the Bridegroom came back to get them, the foolish ones were locked out of the wedding feast while those who remain faithful and endured to the end were allowed in.

From Matthew 24:3-14:


Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,

“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

[baydoll]

Jun 3, 2013 13:38:21 GMT -5 popcorn said:

Seems right to me, the best my brain can comprehend.
The dead rise at the end of a thousand years, not the dead in Christ.

I've always thought that too.

[schwartzie]

I always thought that the unbelievers who were still alive at the end of the tribulation went into the Millennial Kingdom and were judged at the end of it. Now that I think of it though that would give them another chance to repent and get saved, wouldn't it?

[PrisonerOfHope]

Aw nuts...my "picture" of the Last Supper seating got messed up; here's a picture I found online that pretty much shows the way it was. On the left of your screen you'd have John at the end, then Jesus, then Judas. On the right side the person at the end would be Peter.



Dr. DeYoung said that these meals could go on for up to eight hours! To be honest, that seating arrangement didn't look any too comfortable for even an hour or so (nothing to lean back on except the person on your left, and with the low table you couldn't move your legs much), but then again, maybe they got used to it.

[baydoll]

Jun 4, 2013 13:29:53 GMT -5 schwartzie said:

I always thought that the unbelievers who were still alive at the end of the tribulation went into the Millennial Kingdom and were judged at the end of it. Now that I think of it though that would give them another chance to repent and get saved, wouldn't it?

I've always thought only believers went into the Millennial Kingdom and then they have children and thus the population would grow with these people (children of the Tribulation saints) giving the same chance to either choose God or not. At the end of the Millennial, they're the ones who are judged.

Adding to that: ALONG WITH the 'rest of the dead' as Popcorn mentioned above, will be resurrected to face judgment.

I hope that makes sense my brain needs more caffeine. ;D