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Post by baydoll on Sept 13, 2011 9:32:49 GMT -5
In Pastor JD's latest video (Sunday Sept. 11th), he talks about Jesus' parable of the Ten Virgins (at around the 7:10 mark):
I'm curious of what everyone's thoughts are concerning Pastor JD's explanation on Matthew 25:1-13?
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Post by shann0 on Sept 13, 2011 12:39:41 GMT -5
He seems to be saying that the oil represents responsibility. I've never heard a better explanation than what Pastor JD gives here. The oil cannot be the HS because as he says at the beginning, you cannot buy the HS nor can we give the HS. The HS is a gift from God to believers. I don't believe you can "run out" of the HS either.
The virgins are told to go buy more oil, so it stands to reason that this cannot be the tribulation, since that would require the mark to buy or sell. Also, these virgins are identified as bridesmaids, not the Bride so it cannot be the church. JD suggests the virgins as either people who thought they were saved but are not, or Israel. I don't know which one makes more sense.
Once the 5 wise go in to the wedding banquet, the 5 foolish are told by the bridegroom that he never knew them. Does that mean they are lost forever? I don't know. This parable has puzzled me for years. I listen to every explanation I find, and it seems that in my mind they all have problems...
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Post by emortimer on Sept 13, 2011 13:18:19 GMT -5
JD was referring to other teachers about it being Holy Spirit I think
What I took from it was the ones with the oil are the smart ones who study and looked for the coming and was prepared...prepared by accepting the gift of Jesus not living life anyway you want thinking you have as much time as you want...you have to move and do it before it is to late for on the day of His coming it will be too late
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Post by baydoll on Sept 13, 2011 14:01:55 GMT -5
Okay thanks Shann0! This is what I'm getting from Pastor JD as well. Even though the videos are Closed Caption the Closed Captioning has much to be desired. I'm left with this: (I'm typing word for word as it's translated into CC) "the responsibility are in our rapture...in Matthew 1-13 Jesus is teaching one of several parables really three parables as will sing in a moment and He says in Matthew 25 at that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins suit took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom, five of them were foolish and strive worldwide he's the force once took their lamps but did not take or deal with them. The wise however took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming and they all got drowsy and fell asleep and midnight dot cry ringing out past the bridegroom come out to me then then all diversons woke up (( ;D )) and trim their lamps the fullest one said to the wise give us some of your or lower lamps are going out no they replied there might not be enough for both of us and yearly instead go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourself baat ( ? ) while they were on their way to buy oil the bride and groom arrived ( ? I'm hoping Pastor JD said BRIDEGROOM not the Bride and Groom arrived ) the versions ( lol!) already with in with him candidate wants this wedding banquet and the door was shut. Later the others also came first served board before they said Open the door for us! But He replied, I tell you the truth, I don't know him...therefore verse 13 cave watch because you do not know the day or the.. well this parable of the temperatures has been the subject of much debate amongs bible teachers...." so on and so forth. Just to give you an idea what I have to work with. Anyway, what I'm getting from Pastor JD's sermon is this (as much as I am able to anyway)..as we are waiting for our bridegroom to come OUR responsibility is to remain alert, to keep watching out for His return, to not get entangled in the foolish things of this world and to get ourselves ready for Him (purify ourselves) as opposed to the foolish virgins (those who professes to be Christians but are not?) who say So??? Where is His Coming? And then procede to continue to live as they normally do as if there is no tomorrow and His Coming is still a very long ways off. They will not be waiting, they will not be alert, they will not be keeping watch, they will get tangled up in the foolish things of this world and therefore will not be ready when the Bridegroom comes back. And these will be the ones who will be completely caught by surprise when they find themselves shut out of the wedding banquet. (left behind?) And when they say Lord Lord! Open the door for us!!! He will say to them, 'Truly I do not know you.'  Okay, my question is this: Does this include brand new Christians who don't know any better? Because this resembles my son who is a newborn Christian and still has a lot of growing up to do especially in this department. And I have to say I was the same way too once upon a time. But I had a lot of time on my side too and a lot of trials and heartaches to go through to get where I'm at now (and still have a long way to go). Does this mean if the Lord comes back TOMORROW my son will be left out? Even though he is saved? The parable has puzzled me for years too Shann0. |
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Post by baydoll on Sept 13, 2011 14:07:30 GMT -5
JD was referring to other teachers about it being Holy Spirit I think What I took from it was the ones with the oil are the smart ones who study and looked for the coming and was prepared...prepared by accepting the gift of Jesus not living life anyway you want thinking you have as much time as you want...you have to move and do it before it is to late for on the day of His coming it will be too late I got that too. Because you just never know when He will come back. I had this very same conversation with my nonbeliever daughter just last week. I was trying to get her to 'see' before it's too late. |
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Post by shann0 on Sept 13, 2011 14:14:32 GMT -5
Oh dear! I see what you mean. The closed caption version is a bit strange, isn't it?
I don't believe God holds our ignorance against us. He isn't like the state trooper that says ignorance is no excuse for you not obeying the law...
That being said, if one does not ever progress past that initial stage, if they have no desire to learn more about Jesus and grow and strengthen their faith then I would question whether or not an actual conversion took place. Having Jesus should produce a visible change in ones life through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. If it doesn't, then they don't have Jesus.
Everyone progresses at a different rate. Sometimes the Holy Spirit slowly purges things out of ones life, sometimes instantly. But it will happen.
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Post by emortimer on Sept 14, 2011 18:28:50 GMT -5
God holds nothing against us...He loves us as if He was our father...only better...would you hold it against your son or daughter? forgiving, caring, but if you reject Him he will reject you but wait for you to come back....
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Post by baydoll on Sept 15, 2011 8:14:28 GMT -5
Thanks guys, that's pretty much what I've always thought as well. I'm just worried about my kids. My son flip-flops around so much I don't know what to think. Most times he's a wonderful young man who constantly floors me with his compassion towards others and his wisdom and insight on things. Then there are times I am stunned by his behavior... he would turn into this other person and I would be like what the heck? who is this kid? He's like Dr. Jeykll and Mr. Hyde. I'm wondering could he be possessed? At times like that he causes me considerable grief.
When I saw Pastor JD's message, it scared the heck out of me.
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cowgirl
New Kid on the Block
Posts: 7
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Post by cowgirl on Sept 15, 2011 14:36:40 GMT -5
What I understood was the wise virgins were believers of Jesus and the foolish virgins were those who were too busy with worldy pursuits but when the get old they will have time to check out Jesus So they can get to heaven. Everyone would like to go to heaven but I have plenty of time and I want to enjoy myself, later I will go to Jesus and see what I need to do. Have you heard others talk like this?
This may be what you were saying, but I wasn't sure.
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Post by baydoll on Sept 20, 2011 11:21:37 GMT -5
My kids talk that way cowgirl. They say they believe Jesus is coming back one day but they don't want Him to come back in their lifetime. They say they're young and they have things they want to do and they feel cheated if Jesus came back tomorrow.
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Post by emortimer on Sept 22, 2011 8:55:57 GMT -5
my 12 yr old asked me if he would make it to be a grown man or will the rapture happen before then =)
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Post by baydoll on Sept 22, 2011 9:03:27 GMT -5
What did you tell him?
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Post by baydoll on Oct 1, 2011 10:29:32 GMT -5
Updating this thread. I've been thinking on this Parable A LOT ( I have no idea why) and then it finally dawned on me (out of the blue when I wasn't thinking about it at all) that the foolish virgins in this parable are PRETENDER CHRISTIANS. They really think they're Christians but in reality are not. They are the people who go to church and do all the religious churchy things but they do not have a real love relationship with the Lord. That's the 'oil'. They just don't have 'it'. Notice in the parable ALL the virgins took their lamps with them. But the wise virgins took it one step further...they also took oil, the foolish ones did not. The oil represents a true relationship with the Lord. These folks think just because they do all this stuff FOR Christ they're good to go, these 'works' they think they are doing for the Lord will get them into Heaven. But. According to the Lord it will not. Unfortunetly, I know a LOT of people like this. A lot of them are Catholics who think they really ARE Christians (but are not) and some of them not Catholic but are main-stream lukewarm church goers thinking going to church on Sunday makes them 'Christians'. Neither of these folks have any 'oil' with them. Once REAL CHRISTIANS are Raptured out of here they'll be the first to go to the Lord and ask Him What about us?! Let us in!!! I think they'll be shocked to find the door closed to them. This is when they find out they really weren't true Christians after all. How horrible it will be for those people to find out they were wrong and find themselves shut out of heaven forever. Time is running out for these misguided folks. They need to get right with God NOW before it's too late! They need to find out NOW what they REALLY need in order for the Lord to NOT tell them, 'I do not know you'. They need this 'oil' NOW which is a true love relationship with Christ. They need to be Born Again NOW. They need to do this NOW before it's too late. (I think this is what Pastor JD was trying to say.) This is the ONLY way into Heaven. And I do think they need to do this REALLY SOON because the Bridegroom is on His way. He will be here very very soon. |
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Post by shann0 on Oct 1, 2011 11:37:12 GMT -5
This sounds like a good explanation.
But... If the virgins all had oil, and then some ran out I don't think oil can be relationship with the Lord... You don't run out of relationship, nor can you buy relationship. This is the most puzzling part of this parable for me. It has to be something you can buy and run out of.
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Post by maeday5 on Oct 1, 2011 12:30:40 GMT -5
Tend to think this example is like the wheat and tares....hard to know which is which until harvest comes. The two grow side by side.
All of the virgins had oil but where did they get their oil, did all ten have the same source for getting the oil in the first place?? If the five who ran out could go and purchase more (which they had to do) then to me that indicates they did not have the real oil (indwelling HS) to begin with....they had to purchase/buy their oil, it wasn't oil given to them. (man-made oil, as in works, tradition vs God's purchased salvation for us)
The five who refilled their lamps had no need to purchase oil because they had a supply with them. (indwelling HS) All 10 Virgins looked like the real bridesmaids until the very end. Much the same as the harvest of the wheat and tares.
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Post by shann0 on Oct 1, 2011 13:17:25 GMT -5
That's an interesting concept Mae, can you find any corroboration of false oil in scripture?
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Post by maeday5 on Oct 1, 2011 15:25:17 GMT -5
That's an interesting concept Mae, can you find any corroboration of false oil in scripture? No corroboration for false oil specifically. We do find false brethren, false christs, false prophets, false witnesses and so on. Hard to spot them all though as counterfeits mimic quite well the genuine. Even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So back to the ten virgins (bridesmaids) the five who had no oil looked and acted just like the five who had oil. They went out and waited for the bridegroom just like the other five.When the bridegroom gave the 'shout" of his imminent arrival, all ten trimmed their lamps (verse 7) but five had their lamps go out and had to go purchase from sellers more oil. So whatever oil they had in their lamps was not the same as the other five because it didn't keep their lamps lit. We know the parable isn't speaking of losing one's salvation because Christ seals us unto Himself and keeps us in Him, until His coming or our physical death. So, the parable can't be addressing that issue.I believe the parable is a contrast between true salvation and false salvation because the Lord said to the five, left behind, virgins, "I knew you not." Counterfeit (false)bridesmaids is how I view them, using counterfeit ( false) oil. |
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Post by shann0 on Oct 1, 2011 16:15:18 GMT -5
We can't say for certain that the oil was different, we can't rule it out either. We do know that there was not enough of it in the 5 foolish virgins case.
I agree that it isn't about losing salvation. Jesus saying "I knew you not." makes it very clear that the foolish were not saved, so they must have been pretending. That's a very good observation. foolish = wicked.
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Post by maeday5 on Oct 1, 2011 16:36:30 GMT -5
We can't say for certain that the oil was different, we can't rule it out either. We do know that there was not enough of it in the 5 foolish virgins case. I agree that it isn't about losing salvation. Jesus saying "I knew you not." makes it very clear that the foolish were not saved, so they must have been pretending. That's a very good observation. foolish = wicked. "Foolish = wicked." Hmm, had not thought of it as quite so absolute. However, it does seem clear they knew how to behave like bridesmaids but their heart wasn't in it, so to speak.So they chose to be deceived I guess, willfully chose to act (believe)foolishly. Much like today, so many people want to go to heaven, not so much to be with Jesus (the bridegroom) but to escape punishment. And then they decide how they'll get to heaven but reject the necessity of having a saving relationship with the bridegroom Jesus. They have the wrong fuel in their tanks. |
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Post by baydoll on Oct 2, 2011 12:03:33 GMT -5
We can't say for certain that the oil was different, we can't rule it out either. We do know that there was not enough of it in the 5 foolish virgins case. I agree that it isn't about losing salvation. Jesus saying "I knew you not." makes it very clear that the foolish were not saved, so they must have been pretending. That's a very good observation. foolish = wicked. "Foolish = wicked." Hmm, had not thought of it as quite so absolute. However, it does seem clear they knew how to behave like bridesmaids but their heart wasn't in it, so to speak.So they chose to be deceived I guess, willfully chose to act (believe)foolishly. Much like today, so many people want to go to heaven, not so much to be with Jesus (the bridegroom) but to escape punishment. And then they decide how they'll get to heaven but reject the necessity of having a saving relationship with the bridegroom Jesus. They have the wrong fuel in their tanks. Exactly. Notice these foolish people are also considered 'virgins' that's the key. That means they are also part of the church... they look like and act like real 'virgins' or members of the church. And like you said previously, they're the tares among the wheat. We cannot tell which is which YET (and perhaps a lot of them don't know they're tares either) because tares and wheat look alike. Tares and wheat resemble one another on the outside but the insides reveals they are NOT the same. I think it is the same with the ten virgins, they are all called virgins but only half of them are the real deal and these will be the ones who will go into the Wedding Feast with the Bridegroom. We all know the Bride represents the Church. I believe the virgins in this parable represents individual Christians part of the Bride. The virgins in this parable all call themselves virgins (Christians) yet they are not the real deal. TOGETHER they are ALL called virgins. TOGETHER they are ALL waiting for the Bridegroom. TOGETHER they ALL have their lamps. But the difference is some 'take' oil for their lamps and the other does not. Verse 3-4 says, 'for when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them but the wise took flask of oil WITH their lamps' To me this sounds like the wise virgins took WHAT WAS NEEDED (oil) to get into the Wedding Feast, the foolish virgin didn't even bother. What is needed in order to get into the Wedding Feast? Being a part of the Body of Christ (our Bridegroom). How does one become the Body of Christ? By being Born Again. This is what is needed to become One with Him. We are then given a new heart and a new spirit. We are made righteous by the Blood of Christ. This is what the wise virgins DID and the foolish virgins DID NOT do. All this I think represents the oil. The foolish virgins are not Born Again. They did not do what was needed (go to Christ to be Born Again) in order to be a part of the Wedding Party even though they were also virgins. They were with the other virgins but for whatever reason did not bother to do the right thing that is TAKE OIL WITH THEM or BE BORN AGAIN. I think this represents all the people who call themselves Christian, think themselves Christian, go to church, do all the 'things' THEY think will get them into heaven but as they will find out, will not. They never did go to the ONE who will give them this OIL. Thus when it is time to go meet the Bridegroom they will find themselves shut out (whether shut out of Heaven or made to go through the Great Tribulation, I'm not sure yet). |
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Post by maeday5 on Oct 2, 2011 17:41:34 GMT -5
"Foolish = wicked." Hmm, had not thought of it as quite so absolute. However, it does seem clear they knew how to behave like bridesmaids but their heart wasn't in it, so to speak.So they chose to be deceived I guess, willfully chose to act (believe)foolishly. Much like today, so many people want to go to heaven, not so much to be with Jesus (the bridegroom) but to escape punishment. And then they decide how they'll get to heaven but reject the necessity of having a saving relationship with the bridegroom Jesus. They have the wrong fuel in their tanks. Exactly. Notice these foolish people are also considered 'virgins' that's the key. That means they are also part of the church... they look like and act like real 'virgins' or members of the church. And like you said previously, they're the tares among the wheat. We cannot tell which is which YET (and perhaps a lot of them don't know they're tares either) because tares and wheat look alike. Tares and wheat resemble one another on the outside but the insides reveals they are NOT the same. I think it is the same with the ten virgins, they are all called virgins but only half of them are the real deal and these will be the ones who will go into the Wedding Feast with the Bridegroom. We all know the Bride represents the Church. I believe the virgins in this parable represents individual Christians part of the Bride. The virgins in this parable all call themselves virgins (Christians) yet they are not the real deal. TOGETHER they are ALL called virgins. TOGETHER they are ALL waiting for the Bridegroom. TOGETHER they ALL have their lamps. But the difference is some 'take' oil for their lamps and the other does not. Verse 3-4 says, 'for when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them but the wise took flask of oil WITH their lamps' To me this sounds like the wise virgins took WHAT WAS NEEDED (oil) to get into the Wedding Feast, the foolish virgin didn't even bother. What is needed in order to get into the Wedding Feast? Being a part of the Body of Christ (our Bridegroom). How does one become the Body of Christ? By being Born Again. This is what is needed to become One with Him. We are then given a new heart and a new spirit. We are made righteous by the Blood of Christ. This is what the wise virgins DID and the foolish virgins DID NOT do. All this I think represents the oil. The foolish virgins are not Born Again. They did not do what was needed (go to Christ to be Born Again) in order to be a part of the Wedding Party even though they were also virgins. They were with the other virgins but for whatever reason did not bother to do the right thing that is TAKE OIL WITH THEM or BE BORN AGAIN. I think this represents all the people who call themselves Christian, think themselves Christian, go to church, do all the 'things' THEY think will get them into heaven but as they will find out, will not. They never did go to the ONE who will give them this OIL. Thus when it is time to go meet the Bridegroom they will find themselves shut out (whether shut out of Heaven or made to go through the Great Tribulation, I'm not sure yet). Good expansion on the text. Had more written in response but PC ills here today. |
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Post by baydoll on Oct 3, 2011 7:55:35 GMT -5
This sounds like a good explanation. But... If the virgins all had oil, and then some ran out I don't think oil can be relationship with the Lord... You don't run out of relationship, nor can you buy relationship. This is the most puzzling part of this parable for me. It has to be something you can buy and run out of. That's the part I kept getting stuck at Shann0. Thinking about it further, I think it's more than just having a relationship, it's the whole package deal: being Born Again. Notice the foolish virgins didn't take any oil with them to begin with so there wasn't any oil to run out of. When the wise told them to go and buy I think they meant go to the One in order to 'get' what they 'needed' in order to get into the Wedding Feast, and that is to be Born Again. When the foolish virgins finally did go out and 'buy' it was too late. 'NOW is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation' and "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts." As for the foolish virgins 'lamps' running out, I think that might be all the false works/things THEY thought would make them part of the Wedding Party. Jesus said the only way to the Father is through the Son. But the foolish virgins tried to get to the Father through other means ( religious works, being baptized as an infants, being part of a church, going to a priest, praying to the dead ect. ) thus their lamps 'went out'. These things would never get them into the Wedding Party. The wise virgins, on the other hand, went and bought the right 'thing' needed and it would NEVER, EVER run out. "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." and: "Now on the last day of the feast--the great [day]--Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me, and let him drink, the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, 'Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.'" I hope this makes sense... I haven't had enough coffee yet, lol! |
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Post by baydoll on Oct 3, 2011 8:38:36 GMT -5
[/quote] Good expansion on the text. Had more written in response but PC ills here today.[/quote] Thanks Mae.  |
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Post by ELKTOOTH on Oct 29, 2011 15:44:28 GMT -5
"Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.
Isaiah 55:1
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Post by baydoll on Nov 3, 2011 10:50:01 GMT -5
"Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost. Isaiah 55:1 Amen, elktooth! Why spend money on what is not bread, and your labor on what does not satisfy? Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good, and you will delight in the richest of fare. Give ear and come to me; listen, that you may live. Isaiah 55:2-3 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Isaiah 55:6 |
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