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Post by PrisonerOfHope on Oct 3, 2011 13:48:29 GMT -5
This is an EXCELLENT message! For those of you over 50 or so, you might remember the old Groucho Marx show, You Bet Your Life: "Say the secret word and win $100!" The so-called "sinner's prayer" reminds of me that, only it would be called You Bet Your Soul: Say the magic prayer and get eternal life!" Raising your hand because you get caught up in the emotionalism at a Billy Graham (or other) crusade doesn't get you saved either; a tree is known by its fruit. So many have been deceived by things like this....  |
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Post by shann0 on Oct 3, 2011 15:20:02 GMT -5
I'm not a huge fan of calvinists, and Paul Washer is no exception.
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Post by PrisonerOfHope on Oct 3, 2011 15:25:30 GMT -5
Maybe so, but this message is RIGHT ON!
Too many people are deceived into thinking that all they have to do is say a "magic prayer" and their salvation is assured. How many are going to hell based on that false teaching?
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Post by shann0 on Oct 3, 2011 19:10:38 GMT -5
I'm not so sure that it isn't that simple. The bible says confess with your mouth and believe in your heart. No magic hoops to jump through. The thief on the cross didn't do any more than that.
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Post by PrisonerOfHope on Oct 3, 2011 19:22:01 GMT -5
Many years ago, when I lived in NYC, I was helping to get the church ready for services. A guy came in off the street, just to ask for directions. One of my friends said to me, "Let's get him saved!" He went to the man, got him to repeat a "sinner's prayer," the guy got his directions, and went on his way before the services even began. My friend said exultantly, "See, he's saved!" Oh really? Did he continue to grow in the Word? Did he seek the Lord's will for his life? Did he pray or read his Bible? Or was the "magic prayer" enough, even if he believed (at the moment) that it was?
How about the parable of the sower and the seed? The seed that fell on good ground BORE FRUIT. There are a number of Scripture verses that speak of the importance of bearing fruit if one is truly saved; as for the thief on the cross, he was dead within a few hours, but his actions are a witness to this day - how many have been saved because of him?
Sorry; I don't believe for a moment that saying a few words and believing in your heart that you now have "fire insurance" are going to save anybody...one needs to continue to grow and not let that seed wither up. The so-called "sinner's prayer" might be a starting point, but it's by no means "it."
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Post by shann0 on Oct 3, 2011 19:34:31 GMT -5
I'm not saying that we don't grow and continue to mature in our faith, but that doesn't mean that we aren't saved when we initially decide to say that prayer. Salvation is a gift. To say that there is more we need to do other than that confession is to imply that we earn our salvation.
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Post by PrisonerOfHope on Oct 3, 2011 19:39:05 GMT -5
And my point is, a lot of churches/people think that the "magic prayer" is ALL that is needed!
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Post by maeday5 on Oct 4, 2011 6:49:51 GMT -5
I'm not saying that we don't grow and continue to mature in our faith, but that doesn't mean that we aren't saved when we initially decide to say that prayer. Salvation is a gift. To say that there is more we need to do other than that confession is to imply that we earn our salvation. Agree.... if it's a sincere,prayer of conviction, it's all we need. |
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Post by maeday5 on Oct 4, 2011 7:00:00 GMT -5
And my point is, a lot of churches/people think that the "magic prayer" is ALL that is needed! And a lot of folks believe having faith is not enough. I understand the point of some folks not believing what they are praying, just saying the words as some type of "church" protocol. However scripture does say: ."Romans 10:9+10 " that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, thous shalt be saved. For with the heart one believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation." I agree with Shanno you have to be a little suspect of A Calvinist warning about becoming saved, as the believe one is elected to salvation and works are the sign of that election. |
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Post by PrisonerOfHope on Oct 4, 2011 13:32:58 GMT -5
I don't believe Calvinist doctrine, but the guy has a good point - saying a "magic prayer" isn't going to do it! There are tens of thousands - perhaps millions - who thought that just saying a few words (and who were likely called up in the emotionalism of the moment) would be sufficient "fire insurance."
Even Billy Graham (who I personally don't trust, as he's a 33rd degree Mason) admitted that only a small percentage of those who make "decisions" at his crusades actually are serious about it; once the crowds dissipate and they go back to their everyday lives, they forgot all about what they did and they return to "business as usual."
Sure, this guy may be a Calvinist, but NOBODY has doctrine 100% WRONG.
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Post by shann0 on Oct 4, 2011 15:42:14 GMT -5
A person's sincerity is something for God to decide. We don't need to clean ourselves up before we come to Christ, it's come as you are. He does the cleansing!
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Post by PrisonerOfHope on Oct 4, 2011 16:02:15 GMT -5
You keep missing my point! A lot of people think that have to say the prayer...period. No repentance. No fruit. No change in lifestyle. No further thought given to it....just say the words and you have eternal security.
Like that guy who came looking for directions - someone got him to repeat a few words, and that was the end of it. Was he saved? I doubt it! (Hopefully he's gotten saved "for real" since then...)
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