The Quiverfull Movement - Yay or Nay?
Jun 24, 2011 16:57:47 GMT -5
Post by PrisonerOfHope on Jun 24, 2011 16:57:47 GMT -5
On a secular board I participate in, every so often the subject of the Duggars comes up, and never fails to get a flurry of responses. In case you've been living under a rock, this is a Christian family that has 19 children; the youngest is younger than the couple's first grandchild! 
Criticisms range from the fact that the older children are robbed of part of their childhood because they're required to help care for the younger children, to the fact that the girls aren't permitted to wear pants and none of them are permitted to dance, to the idea that the parents can't possibly have enough time to give each child the attention it needs.
Here are some of the posts from the most recent thread:
OK....you get the idea. In an earlier thread some expressed revulsion that Jim Bob and Michelle have an evening alone together each week, where they spend time "baby making."
Here's their home page:
www.duggarfamily.com/
They also have a reality show on TLC:
tlc.howstuffworks.com/tv/19-kids-and-counting
The Duggars are part of something called "The Quiverfull Movement" -
"In Quiverfull Movement, Birth Control Is Shunned
by Barbara Bradley Hagerty
Kelly and Jeff Swanson and their seven children in Shelby, Mich.
Barbara Bradley Hagerty/NPR
Kelly and Jeff Swanson (seated), who are part of the Quiverfull movement, have seven children. But when they first got married, they didn't want children — until they found out that the Bible was high on big families. And then they decided to stop "controlling" themselves.
The Swansons live on Jeff's dairy farm salary of less than $50,000 a year in Shelby, Mich.
Barbara Bradley Hagerty/NPR
The Swansons live on Jeff's dairy farm salary of less than $50,000 a year in Shelby, Mich.
Misty and Seth Huckstead in Grand Rapids, Mich..
Barbara Bradley Hagerty/NPR
Misty and Seth Huckstead (seated) of Grand Rapids, Mich., have six children and another one on the way; they plan to have as many children as possible. "Family has always been the foundation of church and society," Misty says. "It's God's design; it's beautiful."
Among some conservative Christians, a movement is giving new meaning to the biblical mandate to "be fruitful and multiply."
The movement, called Quiverfull, is based on Psalm 127, which says, "Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them."
Those in the Quiverfull movement shun birth control, believing that God will give them the right number of children. It turns out, that's a lot of kids.
'We Actually Didn't Want Children'
While cooking a typical predawn breakfast in the Swanson household in Shelby, Mich., 10-year-old Lydia Swanson cracks a dozen eggs laid by the family chickens. Her mother, Kelly, fries 3 pounds of sausage from the family's own pig and toasts a 12-inch loaf of homemade bread.
If they didn't raise their own food, Kelly Swanson says, they'd spend $1,000 a month on groceries for her gaggle of growing children, including 15-year-old Josiah and 13-year-old Elisha. But in listing their ages, Kelly gets Elisha's age wrong.
"At least I remembered your name," she says.
Kelly can perhaps be forgiven the lapse. The 40-year-old mom has seven children; the youngest is 6 months. And she'd like to have more.
The Swansons subscribe to the Quiverfull movement.
"When we first got married, we actually didn't want children," Kelly's husband, Jeff Swanson, says.
But then the Swansons began to notice that the Bible was very high on big families. And Kelly says that she and Jeff decided that God knew how many children they could handle.
"We just started thinking, 'God is sovereign over life and death. God opens and closes the womb,' " Kelly says. "That's what his word says, so why we're trying to fiddle around and controlling ourselves, we need to stop doing that."
Eighteen years and seven children later, the Swansons live on Jeff's dairy farm salary of less than $50,000 a year. And they've gotten used to the comments from outsiders, such as, "Do you know what causes this?"
"That's always my favorite one when I'm pregnant," Kelly says. "And my husband has a lovely response. Of course we know what causes it — we practice all the time."
Their friends do, too. The average family at their evangelical church has 8.5 kids. They are children who the Swansons hope will spread the message of Christ.
'Womb Is A Powerful Weapon'
That's also the hope of Nancy Campbell, a leader of the Quiverfull movement and author of Be Fruitful and Multiply.
"The womb is such a powerful weapon; it's a weapon against the enemy," Campbell says.
Campbell has 35 grandchildren. She and her husband stopped at six kids, and it is her great regret.
"I think, help! Imagine if we had had more of these children!" Campbell says, adding, "My greatest impact is through my children. The more children I have, the more ability I have to impact the world for God."
A Christian God, that is. Campbell says if believers don't starting reproducing in large numbers, biblical Christianity will lose its voice.
"We look across the Islamic world and we see that they are outnumbering us in their family size, and they are in many places and many countries taking over those nations, without a jihad, just by multiplication," Campbell says.
Still, Quiverfull is a small group, probably 10,000 fast-growing families, mainly in the Midwest and South. But they have large ambitions, says Kathryn Joyce, who has written about the movement in her book Quiverfull: Inside The Christian Patriarchy Movement.
"They speak about, 'If everyone starts having eight children or 12 children, imagine in three generations what we'll be able to do,' " Joyce says. " 'We'll be able to take over both halls of Congress, we'll be able to reclaim sinful cities like San Francisco for the faithful, and we'll be able to wage very effective massive boycotts against companies that are going against God's will.' "
No Regrets
In a suburb of Grand Rapids, Mich., Misty and Seth Huckstead, both 31, are straightening up the living room for a birthday party. No small task with six kids and one on the way. With such a large family, they get by with one car. They shop at thrift stores and occasionally rely on the local seminary's food bank.
Seth says it's difficult having so many kids, but he and Misty have no regrets.
They didn't always have this attitude, Seth says. When they were 23, already with four children, he had a vasectomy. But they searched the Bible and concluded that sterilization was an affront to God.
"He presents children as a blessing," Seth says. "And so we started to evaluate whether our decision was ethically right. And we came to regret our decision."
They turned to a ministry that raises money and finds doctors to reverse vasectomies at a bargain price. And their family grew. Misty says she'll have as many children as possible. She loves having babies and believes it's the proper role for women.
"It's not individual, it's not 'I'm a woman, hear me roar, I'm going to go take on the world,' " Misty says. "Family has always been the foundation of church and society. It's God's design; it's beautiful."
Moments later, another Quiverfull family drops by, and for a few moments, they entertain themselves as would a large family 100 years ago.
They sing Psalm 127 — a song that seems written just for them."
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102005062
I was at the movies the other day, and found myself surrounded by a bunch of little kids. I counted off 19 - the number the Duggars have - and couldn't even begin to imagine having the responsibility of having to care and provide for all of them. The toll all those pregnancies would take on a woman's body can't be good, and I would imagine that the children would have to do without a lot that their friends have.
So....what are your thoughts? Is this movement oppressive to women, or is it the way God would have us live?
Criticisms range from the fact that the older children are robbed of part of their childhood because they're required to help care for the younger children, to the fact that the girls aren't permitted to wear pants and none of them are permitted to dance, to the idea that the parents can't possibly have enough time to give each child the attention it needs.
Here are some of the posts from the most recent thread:
I'm sorry you people defending the Duggars Cult are nuts. Not allowing your children to listen to music not played by a family member or dance. Then no friends they make on their own due to no public school? Dresses only for women as seeing their thigh (even through pants) is "Like unto being naked". Oh PLEASE! Follow that with Newspapers/Television being denied spells Cult of Men who like keeping women barefoot and pregnant along with ignorant of the world and enjoy many children to make them feel like "big men" making up for their "own personal shortcomings".We will never be treated as equals obviously. And the male dominated world goes on due to ignorant women allowing it. IMO
The "right to be different" Duggar Defenders don't get the basic facts. Thanks for your double thumbs up. This thread drives me nuts at how many women just see it as a "right to be different". Oppression is oppression. If anything is sinful its the abuse of womens bodys having too many children so they turn out "developmentally or physically disabled" and keeping women ignorant. Spread the word Sista !!!
I've never actually met the family, but I have a sneaking suspicion that people who do know Michelle might snicker at the notion of her being oppressed. I'm pretty sure she chose her religion, her husband, and her lifestyle. I'm also pretty sure that she understood all the implications of her choices, and that, more often than not, things go the way Michelle wants them to go!
She seems to be a different sort of Steel Magnolia, a pretty rare variant, but behind all that sweetness and sunshine, she's no pushover. I can tell that much.
I think the children are lovely.
She seems to be a different sort of Steel Magnolia, a pretty rare variant, but behind all that sweetness and sunshine, she's no pushover. I can tell that much.
I think the children are lovely.
Seems like as soon as a child is old enough he is put in charge of a younger one....the parents seem too busy producing more children than raising the ones they have. I hope the children will be able to transition into the "real world" when they are older; they have all been so cloistered that I can't imagine how they learn to relate and interact with others in the world who may not look or think like they do. They really do live in their own little world.
I think oppression is constantly being told a woman is never pretty enough, thin enough or rich enough. Being told that plastic surgery is the norm, wrinkles are not to be seen. I think seeing 5th grade girls that look 16, and 16 year old that look 20 is oppressing to women. And that cleavage on young girls is normal. I am in California. Many Grade school girls look up to Victoria Secret models. I have GK's in both grade school, Junior high and high school. A trip to their campus is a rude awakening. They may go to school one way, but walking home they wear tank tops, push up bras and show cleavage. They get their hair dyed at 11, get fake nails, pedicures, hair extentions,straightened and expensive highlights. To me that is demoralizing and degrading to woman. That they never think they are good enough because of the standards the media has given us. To me that is worse than having a young girl wear a dress, and help with their siblings. This is JMHO.
Well said! My 13 year old niece recently went to a dance at school wearing a strapless sequinned dress, 4 inch heels, fake nails, pedicure, up do that could've been worn on the red carpet & more makeup than I've ever worn (even on my wedding day!). I was speechless! I think the Duggar's are wonderful! They may be out of touch with our society, but if so, then I wish I was too!
I really don't understand why so many people dislike this family. They're a happy, hard-working, loyal, well-behaved, non-dysfunctional family. They don't have their faces stuck in their computers or video games, they don't scream at each other or call each other names....they speak to one another in gentle voices, they take care of each other, they obviously enjoy being with each other, they are constantly going somewhere to help people less fortunate....it's quite fascinating, really. We need more people like the Duggars in this world.
They are a christian family choosing to live the way God wants them to, by following biblical principles. and I think God has blessed them for it.
What person would want their daughter to live like this? I'd be terrified if my daughter dated someone like Jim Bob.
ETA: And before anyone asks, no, I wouldn't want my daughter wearing a burqua either.
ETA: And before anyone asks, no, I wouldn't want my daughter wearing a burqua either.
OK....you get the idea. In an earlier thread some expressed revulsion that Jim Bob and Michelle have an evening alone together each week, where they spend time "baby making."
Here's their home page:
www.duggarfamily.com/
They also have a reality show on TLC:
tlc.howstuffworks.com/tv/19-kids-and-counting
The Duggars are part of something called "The Quiverfull Movement" -
"In Quiverfull Movement, Birth Control Is Shunned
by Barbara Bradley Hagerty
Kelly and Jeff Swanson and their seven children in Shelby, Mich.
Barbara Bradley Hagerty/NPR
Kelly and Jeff Swanson (seated), who are part of the Quiverfull movement, have seven children. But when they first got married, they didn't want children — until they found out that the Bible was high on big families. And then they decided to stop "controlling" themselves.
The Swansons live on Jeff's dairy farm salary of less than $50,000 a year in Shelby, Mich.
Barbara Bradley Hagerty/NPR
The Swansons live on Jeff's dairy farm salary of less than $50,000 a year in Shelby, Mich.
Misty and Seth Huckstead in Grand Rapids, Mich..
Barbara Bradley Hagerty/NPR
Misty and Seth Huckstead (seated) of Grand Rapids, Mich., have six children and another one on the way; they plan to have as many children as possible. "Family has always been the foundation of church and society," Misty says. "It's God's design; it's beautiful."
Among some conservative Christians, a movement is giving new meaning to the biblical mandate to "be fruitful and multiply."
The movement, called Quiverfull, is based on Psalm 127, which says, "Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them."
Those in the Quiverfull movement shun birth control, believing that God will give them the right number of children. It turns out, that's a lot of kids.
'We Actually Didn't Want Children'
While cooking a typical predawn breakfast in the Swanson household in Shelby, Mich., 10-year-old Lydia Swanson cracks a dozen eggs laid by the family chickens. Her mother, Kelly, fries 3 pounds of sausage from the family's own pig and toasts a 12-inch loaf of homemade bread.
If they didn't raise their own food, Kelly Swanson says, they'd spend $1,000 a month on groceries for her gaggle of growing children, including 15-year-old Josiah and 13-year-old Elisha. But in listing their ages, Kelly gets Elisha's age wrong.
"At least I remembered your name," she says.
Kelly can perhaps be forgiven the lapse. The 40-year-old mom has seven children; the youngest is 6 months. And she'd like to have more.
The Swansons subscribe to the Quiverfull movement.
"When we first got married, we actually didn't want children," Kelly's husband, Jeff Swanson, says.
But then the Swansons began to notice that the Bible was very high on big families. And Kelly says that she and Jeff decided that God knew how many children they could handle.
"We just started thinking, 'God is sovereign over life and death. God opens and closes the womb,' " Kelly says. "That's what his word says, so why we're trying to fiddle around and controlling ourselves, we need to stop doing that."
Eighteen years and seven children later, the Swansons live on Jeff's dairy farm salary of less than $50,000 a year. And they've gotten used to the comments from outsiders, such as, "Do you know what causes this?"
"That's always my favorite one when I'm pregnant," Kelly says. "And my husband has a lovely response. Of course we know what causes it — we practice all the time."
Their friends do, too. The average family at their evangelical church has 8.5 kids. They are children who the Swansons hope will spread the message of Christ.
'Womb Is A Powerful Weapon'
That's also the hope of Nancy Campbell, a leader of the Quiverfull movement and author of Be Fruitful and Multiply.
"The womb is such a powerful weapon; it's a weapon against the enemy," Campbell says.
Campbell has 35 grandchildren. She and her husband stopped at six kids, and it is her great regret.
"I think, help! Imagine if we had had more of these children!" Campbell says, adding, "My greatest impact is through my children. The more children I have, the more ability I have to impact the world for God."
A Christian God, that is. Campbell says if believers don't starting reproducing in large numbers, biblical Christianity will lose its voice.
"We look across the Islamic world and we see that they are outnumbering us in their family size, and they are in many places and many countries taking over those nations, without a jihad, just by multiplication," Campbell says.
Still, Quiverfull is a small group, probably 10,000 fast-growing families, mainly in the Midwest and South. But they have large ambitions, says Kathryn Joyce, who has written about the movement in her book Quiverfull: Inside The Christian Patriarchy Movement.
"They speak about, 'If everyone starts having eight children or 12 children, imagine in three generations what we'll be able to do,' " Joyce says. " 'We'll be able to take over both halls of Congress, we'll be able to reclaim sinful cities like San Francisco for the faithful, and we'll be able to wage very effective massive boycotts against companies that are going against God's will.' "
No Regrets
In a suburb of Grand Rapids, Mich., Misty and Seth Huckstead, both 31, are straightening up the living room for a birthday party. No small task with six kids and one on the way. With such a large family, they get by with one car. They shop at thrift stores and occasionally rely on the local seminary's food bank.
Seth says it's difficult having so many kids, but he and Misty have no regrets.
They didn't always have this attitude, Seth says. When they were 23, already with four children, he had a vasectomy. But they searched the Bible and concluded that sterilization was an affront to God.
"He presents children as a blessing," Seth says. "And so we started to evaluate whether our decision was ethically right. And we came to regret our decision."
They turned to a ministry that raises money and finds doctors to reverse vasectomies at a bargain price. And their family grew. Misty says she'll have as many children as possible. She loves having babies and believes it's the proper role for women.
"It's not individual, it's not 'I'm a woman, hear me roar, I'm going to go take on the world,' " Misty says. "Family has always been the foundation of church and society. It's God's design; it's beautiful."
Moments later, another Quiverfull family drops by, and for a few moments, they entertain themselves as would a large family 100 years ago.
They sing Psalm 127 — a song that seems written just for them."
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102005062
I was at the movies the other day, and found myself surrounded by a bunch of little kids. I counted off 19 - the number the Duggars have - and couldn't even begin to imagine having the responsibility of having to care and provide for all of them. The toll all those pregnancies would take on a woman's body can't be good, and I would imagine that the children would have to do without a lot that their friends have.
So....what are your thoughts? Is this movement oppressive to women, or is it the way God would have us live?
