After the Tribulation? 1
Dec 3, 2014 7:40:09 GMT -5
Post by baydoll on Dec 3, 2014 7:40:09 GMT -5
After the Tribulation? 1
By Travis Sumbera
A new documentary called After The Tribulation, is a very deceptive film from film-maker Paul Wittenberger featuring Steve Anderson (Faithful Word Baptist Church) and Roger Jiminez. The basis of this documentary is that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a fraud.
I found out about this film from Alex Jones Infowars.com. I am very appreciative of Alex and his stand for liberty and exposing the New World Order of the global satanic elite. I am a listener on a weekly basis. However, when it comes to spiritual matters and the Bible Alex is unlearned and shows it with arrogance at times. This article will not be able to cover every detail outlined in the film, however I will hit on the key errors this film presents.
The film runs about two hours in length and starts off by giving us the “roots” of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine. Unsurprisingly, John Nelson Darby is to blame, therefore claiming the doctrine had not been taught before 1830. This can easily be disproved by a moment of research. I will just give one example of this so we can move on to more important points from the BIBLE.
My example comes from a hymn, that was written by Reginald Heber (1783-1826), the hymn is called “Holy, Holy, Holy” and since it became a tune in the mid 1800s it has become very popular and certainly an anointed song of worship. Many may sing along and not realize that this song glorifies the Pre-Trib Rapture. For the second verse reads:
Holy, holy, holy! All the saints adore Thee,
Casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea;
Cherubim and seraphim falling down before Thee,
Who wert, and art, and evermore shall be.
This is a paraphrase of Revelation chapter 4 as the saints are pictured around God’s Throne before the judgments begin. This song was written before 1826 at least, therefore, proving the doctrine had been taught in churches back before 1830. End of story. When anyone wants to argue that JND had started the doctrine, just stop them in their tracks, give them this simple example and waste no more time on the topic of who “first” preached what. Let’s just go to the Word of God for doctrine.
The film, After the Tribulation, first focuses on Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, parallel passages describing the same event. Mr. Anderson claims these verses speak of the Rapture of the church as being “immediately after the Tribulation.” However this film has confused many by this statement, unless you look further into Mr. Anderson’s other videos and you will be confused as to what he is actually teaching here and does a poor job of explaining in this film.
To him the “Tribulation” is the first 3 ½ years of Daniels 70th week. The last 3 ½ years or sometime after the 6th seal is the start of the wrath of God and no longer tribulation. He preaches a post-Trib pre-wrath position. As Pastor Jiminez says in the film, “Let let the Bible be its own dictionary.”
In Matthew 24 Jesus is asked by his disciples (Jews) what signs there shall be for the end of the world. As he progresses giving them details he mentions about those in Judea to flee into the mountains, etc. That is clearly Jewish language. Yes, even the gentiles will face the events as those who are left behind in Chapter 24 vs.1-31, but Jesus clearly is speaking in the Jewish perspective. it’s in that context. Pastor Anderson says otherwise but the confusion doesn’t stop there, now let’s get into “Tribulation.”
The word “tribulation” is correctly defined by Steve as persecution, and suffering. As born-again Christians we all experience this throughout life. However, Steve Anderson takes John 16:33 (a verse that talks about believers having tribulation in this world) to prove we will be going through the first 3 ½ years of Tribulation on earth.
Sorry pastor, but that is an invalid argument. The tribulation that we experience now is not the same as God’s judgment upon this earth. Confusion like this will set anyone up for end times theological error. But let’s go further into his Scripture twisting pre-Trib Rapture hating rant.
Pastor Anderson correlates Revelation 6:12-17 with Matthew 24:29-31. To his credit, there are a lot of similarities. But he uses this correlation as proof to say the Rapture will come after this 6th seal event and all the seals before this were not God’s wrath. Here are the problems with this assertion:
1. Jesus Christ is the Lamb who is opening these seals, no other man is worthy. Man does cause the events of chapter 6, but it’s the Man Jesus Christ. From the 1st Seal to the 7th vial…it’s all God’s wrath, it just intensifies with each set of judgments.
2. In Revelation chapter 5 John gives us the identity of the 24 elders as the GLORIFIED Church Age saints with the song they sing with the four beasts saying “..and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, tongue, people and nation.”
3. The saints killed for the testimony of Christ at the opening of the 5th seal are Tribulation saints who came to faith after the Rapture and now had to pay the consequence under the onslaught of the Antichrist and his hordes.
4. There is no picture or reference of Jesus Christ coming for His church, no trumpet, nothing, from the 6th seal or even in chapter 7. It’s only the martyred Tribulation saints that have been resurrected and now are before the Fathers Throne.
Which leads us to Pastor Anderson’s next claim that the Rapture of the church is in Revelation chapter 7. Though there is no denial that there is a resurrection of saints in that chapter, there is a big problem with asserting that this is the Rapture of the church. Again, this multitude that no man can number are those who missed the rapture and were slaughtered for their testimony in Christ (i.e. 5th Seal). There are a couple ways to go about explaining why these are not Church Age saints, but the best way is by understanding how the book of Revelation is laid out.
Revelation is split down the middle in chronological order. In other words, chapter 1 to chapter 11 are in order with the fourth chapter showing us the heavenly picture of God’s throne, the four beasts, and the Elders. From chapter 4 through 22 we are now dealing with the “hereafter” picture which starts over in chapter 12.
So as long as we can clearly explain and rightly divide the truth as to where the Rapture happens in the book of Revelation (which is shown twice), we then can put all minds to ease from confusion as to the timing of this glorious event while comparing to the details given to us throughout the rest of God’s Word. So let us look at John’s vision in chapter 4.
“After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, ‘Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.’ And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne” (Revelation 4:1-2).
Here we see a door opened in heaven, just as a door had opened for the Bridegroom to come for the five wise virgins in Matthew 25 as we see the words “and the door was shut.” Also remember God had closed the door on the Ark. And we see a door open in Revelation 11:12 for the two witnesses by the same command, come up hither. Pastor Anderson argues that this sound as a trumpet that John hears is not an actual trumpet therefore cannot be the Rapture.
But if you read carefully the language used, this passage (Rev. 4:12) is telling us that John is indeed hearing a sound which “was like a trumpet” but it’s talking to him. Who are we, having not experienced the coming of the Lord yet, to say that the trumpet heard will not be with a “come up hither?” Oh how beautiful are the mysteries of God! Let’s continue…
Pastor Anderson then goes on to make a claim that these passages simply cannot be the Rapture because it’s only John going up into heaven and it’s not by body, but only by spirit. He makes a good point, but fails to rightly divide the Word. Why does John the Revelator go up in spirit only and not body if this were a picture of the Rapture? First, 1 Corinthians 15:50 tells us that flesh and blood can NOT inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
John’s body had not yet been glorified, therefore it’s only by his spirit that the Lord was able to show him the majesty he was about to witness. And secondly, Revelation chapter 4 is just that, a picture. Not that the actual event that just happened but that it was going to happen—hereafter. Therefore, what we saw happen to John, will be what we experience in the near future.
And is it possible that Christ is giving us a picture like this to perhaps show how personal it will be for each of us? We all have our own personal relationship with Him and shall be changed in a twinkling of an eye. It was John who received the vision to give to the church, he alone ascended in the spirit as to represent the church as a whole.
Lastly, we see the 24 elders seated on seats (or thrones, with the Father). These elders have crowns upon their heads and are clothed in white raiment. All of which are rewards promised to the overcomers in the second and third chapter of this Revelation and confirmed throughout the New Testament. Let us not forget that the elders are identified as coming out of every tongue, nation, people, etc. in chapter 5.
We will be giving much praise to the Worthy Lamb as we are on our thrones and help execute judgment against the wicked with the Father’s Son. The four beasts will always be there to sing along in beautiful worship.
This is just a shorter explanation of Revelation chapter 4 and how it depicts the Rapture will indeed, without a doubt, happen before the 7 years of Great Tribulation. In Part Two we will look into the second place of the book of Revelation where we find further proof of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
In Grace,
Travis
To contact me please email: beararms1990@hotmail.com
www.raptureready.com/soap2/sumbera1.html
By Travis Sumbera
A new documentary called After The Tribulation, is a very deceptive film from film-maker Paul Wittenberger featuring Steve Anderson (Faithful Word Baptist Church) and Roger Jiminez. The basis of this documentary is that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a fraud.
I found out about this film from Alex Jones Infowars.com. I am very appreciative of Alex and his stand for liberty and exposing the New World Order of the global satanic elite. I am a listener on a weekly basis. However, when it comes to spiritual matters and the Bible Alex is unlearned and shows it with arrogance at times. This article will not be able to cover every detail outlined in the film, however I will hit on the key errors this film presents.
The film runs about two hours in length and starts off by giving us the “roots” of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine. Unsurprisingly, John Nelson Darby is to blame, therefore claiming the doctrine had not been taught before 1830. This can easily be disproved by a moment of research. I will just give one example of this so we can move on to more important points from the BIBLE.
My example comes from a hymn, that was written by Reginald Heber (1783-1826), the hymn is called “Holy, Holy, Holy” and since it became a tune in the mid 1800s it has become very popular and certainly an anointed song of worship. Many may sing along and not realize that this song glorifies the Pre-Trib Rapture. For the second verse reads:
Holy, holy, holy! All the saints adore Thee,
Casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea;
Cherubim and seraphim falling down before Thee,
Who wert, and art, and evermore shall be.
This is a paraphrase of Revelation chapter 4 as the saints are pictured around God’s Throne before the judgments begin. This song was written before 1826 at least, therefore, proving the doctrine had been taught in churches back before 1830. End of story. When anyone wants to argue that JND had started the doctrine, just stop them in their tracks, give them this simple example and waste no more time on the topic of who “first” preached what. Let’s just go to the Word of God for doctrine.
The film, After the Tribulation, first focuses on Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, parallel passages describing the same event. Mr. Anderson claims these verses speak of the Rapture of the church as being “immediately after the Tribulation.” However this film has confused many by this statement, unless you look further into Mr. Anderson’s other videos and you will be confused as to what he is actually teaching here and does a poor job of explaining in this film.
To him the “Tribulation” is the first 3 ½ years of Daniels 70th week. The last 3 ½ years or sometime after the 6th seal is the start of the wrath of God and no longer tribulation. He preaches a post-Trib pre-wrath position. As Pastor Jiminez says in the film, “Let let the Bible be its own dictionary.”
In Matthew 24 Jesus is asked by his disciples (Jews) what signs there shall be for the end of the world. As he progresses giving them details he mentions about those in Judea to flee into the mountains, etc. That is clearly Jewish language. Yes, even the gentiles will face the events as those who are left behind in Chapter 24 vs.1-31, but Jesus clearly is speaking in the Jewish perspective. it’s in that context. Pastor Anderson says otherwise but the confusion doesn’t stop there, now let’s get into “Tribulation.”
The word “tribulation” is correctly defined by Steve as persecution, and suffering. As born-again Christians we all experience this throughout life. However, Steve Anderson takes John 16:33 (a verse that talks about believers having tribulation in this world) to prove we will be going through the first 3 ½ years of Tribulation on earth.
Sorry pastor, but that is an invalid argument. The tribulation that we experience now is not the same as God’s judgment upon this earth. Confusion like this will set anyone up for end times theological error. But let’s go further into his Scripture twisting pre-Trib Rapture hating rant.
Pastor Anderson correlates Revelation 6:12-17 with Matthew 24:29-31. To his credit, there are a lot of similarities. But he uses this correlation as proof to say the Rapture will come after this 6th seal event and all the seals before this were not God’s wrath. Here are the problems with this assertion:
1. Jesus Christ is the Lamb who is opening these seals, no other man is worthy. Man does cause the events of chapter 6, but it’s the Man Jesus Christ. From the 1st Seal to the 7th vial…it’s all God’s wrath, it just intensifies with each set of judgments.
2. In Revelation chapter 5 John gives us the identity of the 24 elders as the GLORIFIED Church Age saints with the song they sing with the four beasts saying “..and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, tongue, people and nation.”
3. The saints killed for the testimony of Christ at the opening of the 5th seal are Tribulation saints who came to faith after the Rapture and now had to pay the consequence under the onslaught of the Antichrist and his hordes.
4. There is no picture or reference of Jesus Christ coming for His church, no trumpet, nothing, from the 6th seal or even in chapter 7. It’s only the martyred Tribulation saints that have been resurrected and now are before the Fathers Throne.
Which leads us to Pastor Anderson’s next claim that the Rapture of the church is in Revelation chapter 7. Though there is no denial that there is a resurrection of saints in that chapter, there is a big problem with asserting that this is the Rapture of the church. Again, this multitude that no man can number are those who missed the rapture and were slaughtered for their testimony in Christ (i.e. 5th Seal). There are a couple ways to go about explaining why these are not Church Age saints, but the best way is by understanding how the book of Revelation is laid out.
Revelation is split down the middle in chronological order. In other words, chapter 1 to chapter 11 are in order with the fourth chapter showing us the heavenly picture of God’s throne, the four beasts, and the Elders. From chapter 4 through 22 we are now dealing with the “hereafter” picture which starts over in chapter 12.
So as long as we can clearly explain and rightly divide the truth as to where the Rapture happens in the book of Revelation (which is shown twice), we then can put all minds to ease from confusion as to the timing of this glorious event while comparing to the details given to us throughout the rest of God’s Word. So let us look at John’s vision in chapter 4.
“After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, ‘Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.’ And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne” (Revelation 4:1-2).
Here we see a door opened in heaven, just as a door had opened for the Bridegroom to come for the five wise virgins in Matthew 25 as we see the words “and the door was shut.” Also remember God had closed the door on the Ark. And we see a door open in Revelation 11:12 for the two witnesses by the same command, come up hither. Pastor Anderson argues that this sound as a trumpet that John hears is not an actual trumpet therefore cannot be the Rapture.
But if you read carefully the language used, this passage (Rev. 4:12) is telling us that John is indeed hearing a sound which “was like a trumpet” but it’s talking to him. Who are we, having not experienced the coming of the Lord yet, to say that the trumpet heard will not be with a “come up hither?” Oh how beautiful are the mysteries of God! Let’s continue…
Pastor Anderson then goes on to make a claim that these passages simply cannot be the Rapture because it’s only John going up into heaven and it’s not by body, but only by spirit. He makes a good point, but fails to rightly divide the Word. Why does John the Revelator go up in spirit only and not body if this were a picture of the Rapture? First, 1 Corinthians 15:50 tells us that flesh and blood can NOT inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
John’s body had not yet been glorified, therefore it’s only by his spirit that the Lord was able to show him the majesty he was about to witness. And secondly, Revelation chapter 4 is just that, a picture. Not that the actual event that just happened but that it was going to happen—hereafter. Therefore, what we saw happen to John, will be what we experience in the near future.
And is it possible that Christ is giving us a picture like this to perhaps show how personal it will be for each of us? We all have our own personal relationship with Him and shall be changed in a twinkling of an eye. It was John who received the vision to give to the church, he alone ascended in the spirit as to represent the church as a whole.
Lastly, we see the 24 elders seated on seats (or thrones, with the Father). These elders have crowns upon their heads and are clothed in white raiment. All of which are rewards promised to the overcomers in the second and third chapter of this Revelation and confirmed throughout the New Testament. Let us not forget that the elders are identified as coming out of every tongue, nation, people, etc. in chapter 5.
We will be giving much praise to the Worthy Lamb as we are on our thrones and help execute judgment against the wicked with the Father’s Son. The four beasts will always be there to sing along in beautiful worship.
This is just a shorter explanation of Revelation chapter 4 and how it depicts the Rapture will indeed, without a doubt, happen before the 7 years of Great Tribulation. In Part Two we will look into the second place of the book of Revelation where we find further proof of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
In Grace,
Travis
To contact me please email: beararms1990@hotmail.com
www.raptureready.com/soap2/sumbera1.html
