Our Triune God

[popcorn]

Our Triune God

Worshipping the true God requires at least minimal knowledge about who He is. And while none of us can understand God completely, He has revealed some truths about Himself in Scripture in a way we can understand. As Christians, we should want to understand God’s revelation of His own character as clearly as possible. The Trinity is at the heart of God’s self-revelation.

But the Trinity is one of the most easily misunderstood doctrines; even many Christians are uncertain of what the Trinity means. Many unwittingly hold to doctrines that have been condemned as either heresy or serious error throughout Church history. Others are aware of the heterodox nature of their beliefs, but insist it was the Church, not the heretics, who were mistaken. In an era where theological teaching is often underemphasized in the Church, it is not surprising that there are fewer today than in the past who can confidently say what the Bible teaches about the Trinity.

read the rest here:
creation.com/triune-god

[baydoll]

Good one, Popcorn!

Here's another one on the Trinity:

What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?

Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.

For the rest, go here ------> www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

[baydoll]

Good subject! I'm glad you brought this up, Popcorn!

Here's another question I like:

Will we be able to see all three members of the Trinity in Heaven?

Question: "Will we be able to see all three members of the Trinity in Heaven?"

Answer: Before considering if we will actually be able to see God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, we need to establish that they are three Persons. Without delving too deeply into the doctrine of the Trinity, we need to understand that the Father is not the same Person as the Son, the Son is not the same Person as the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is not the same Person as the Father. They are not three Gods. They are three distinct Persons, yet they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal and co-powerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

Read the rest here: www.gotquestions.org/see-Trinity-heaven.html

[popcorn]

I got both those sites bookmarked now!

[wateredseeds]

Wow. I grew up trinitarian, and i can tell you that i am NOT trinitarian now. The problem is that NOWHERE in scripture is God actually revealed as 3 persons. We are made in the image of God. We have a soul, a spirit and a flesh. My soul is part of me...and is me, it is not a different person. This in the same way is how God has revealed himself to us.

Also, to answer the question about whether you will see the 3 "persons" of God(which is incorrect)....you need to understand that NO MAN hath seen God, nor shall he ever. God is invisible. God had to CREATE an image to dwell in. This image is Jesus Christ.

"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."-1 John 4:12

Every time in scripture that God has been seen.....it is His image(Jesus Christ) that is seen. This image was created for God to dwell in. He did not create multiple images to dwell in. He created one image to dwell in.

Proverbs 8:22-36
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.

33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.

35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord.

36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

The above passage is a description of the creation of the image of God. Notice particularly vs 35 to identify the speaker. It is Jesus who is speaking. For there is no other name by which I am saved(acts 4:12).

The biggest misconception is that there is multiple thrones for God to sit in. That Jesus Christ is somehow sitting in a throne separate from God the Father.

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."-Hebrews 12:2

This is a jewish idiom. It means at the right hand of power.

"Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy."-Exodus 15:6

"Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."-Matthew 26:64

Jesus is not sitting at the "literal" right hand of God...because God has no literal right hand.

Notice the glorified image of God in Revelation chapter 1 maches the descriptions of the image of God on the throne throughout the bible.

"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."-Revelation 21:3-6

Notice that it says that he that sat upon THE throne(there is not multiple thrones mentioned)....He makes all things new. Who is it that makes all things new? Jesus. Jesus is called the alpha and omega in revelation chapter 1.

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads."-Revelation 22:3-4

Once again, the throne of God...not thrones of God. And HIS name shall be in their foreheads.

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."-Revelation 3:12

This passage seems to indicate that 3 names will be written upon us. However, that is not true.

" And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the Lord.

5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness."-Jeremiah 23:3-6

"15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness."-Jeremiah 33:15-16

In Jeremiah 23, it references Jesus Christ as the "righteous branch" and as the "king"....and it says His new name shall be called "the Lord our righteousness". In Jeremiah 33, it references the new jerusalem...the CITY of my God....and it says that SHE will be called "the Lord our righteousness".

I could go on and on and on...but i will leave you with one final verse.

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."-Isaiah 9:6

Jesus, the child that is born...the son of God, is called EVERLASTING FATHER. There is only 1 God, there is only 1 name of God...revealed first to Mary, never before revealed....Jesus Christ(Yahshua).

[wateredseeds]

I also wanted to point out that the article says that the bible relates the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as distinct and different. They must be reading a different bible than me(KJV)...because mine says the exact opposite.

" Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."-John 14:6-10

Jesus says that He is the Father. What's more is that He says that the Father DWELLS IN HIM(that is to say His image).

" And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."-John 14:16-18

When Jesus says the Holy Spirit will come to them.....He says "for he dwelleth with you(as Jesus) and shall be in you. Then He says it clearly...."I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

They are not different persons...they are ONE person, as we are one.

[baydoll]

They are not different persons...they are ONE person, as we are one.

Who is this 'they' you are speaking of, wateredseeds?

Also, this is from the article I posted from gotquestions.org:

Quote:
They are not three Gods. They are three distinct Persons, yet they are all the one God.
Unquote.

[wateredseeds]

I referred to "they" because of the topic. The "they" is what most people call "persons"...but "they" are simply the different ways God is revealed.

[baydoll]

Oct 19, 2012 12:49:56 GMT -5 @wateredseeds said:

Also, to answer the question about whether you will see the 3 "persons" of God(which is incorrect)....you need to understand that NO MAN hath seen God, nor shall he ever. God is invisible. God had to CREATE an image to dwell in. This image is Jesus Christ.

"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."-1 John 4:12

Also from the article:

They are not three Gods. They are three distinct Persons, yet they are all the one God.

So in heaven, there are three Persons. But will we be able to actually see them? Revelation 4:3-6 gives us a description of heaven and the throne that is occupied by God and by the Lamb: “the one sitting there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian… a rainbow resembling an emerald encircled the throne. Before the throne… a sea of glass, clear as crystal.” Since God dwells in “unapproachable light” and is one “whom no one has seen or can see” (1 Timothy 6:16), God is described in terms of the reflected brilliance of precious stones. First Corinthians 2:9 says, “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him.” Because of God’s holiness, it may be that we will never be able to look upon His face, but again, this is speculation.

[wateredseeds]

Maybe I should have said "He" is not 3 different persons.

I know my position is not the popular one. However, the new age Jesus pushes trinitarian imagery very hard.

" God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high."-Hebrews 1:1-3

"12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."-Colossians 1:12-17

Who makes all things new?

"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."-Revelation 21:5

Jesus makes all things new.

People always think that the name of the Father is Yahwey. That is NOT His name.

Genesis 32:27-29
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

Exodus 3:13-15
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The name Yahweh is all over the old testament. And yet when asked His name...He always pivots away from the question....either not answering it, or offering a statement rather than a name as an allusion to who He is. It isn't until His name is revealed to Mary that we learn the name Jesus...which IS the name of God....the name of the Father(everlasting father?)...and the name of the Holy Ghost who IS Jesus Christ(Christ in me according to Galatians).

Don't believe me that His name was hidden until revealed to Mary?

"17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?

18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?"-Judges 13:17-18

The Angel of the Lord...who IS Jesus Christ in the old testament.....tells us that His name is secret. It was hidden from the foundation of the world...and first revealed to Mary.

[wateredseeds]

baydoll,

The article is flat out wrong. The Father only has one image...and that is Jesus. Will we be able to see Jesus? Yes. Does the holy spirit also have a throne? No. The throne Jesus will be on...is the throne of the Father. They are not separate images. That leads to idolatry. It leads to worshipping a false image of God.

[wateredseeds]

BTW: I'm not saying trinitarianism is idolatry. I'm saying it "can" lead to idolatry. Especially when people start to think there are multiple images of God. If you want that kind of blasphemous appeal...read "heaven is for real". The little boy tries to describe all 3 "images" of God. Apparently the holy ghost is this blue looking thing LOL. It's ridiculous.

[baydoll]

Oct 19, 2012 14:09:39 GMT -5 @wateredseeds said:

baydoll,

The article is flat out wrong. The Father only has one image...and that is Jesus. Will we be able to see Jesus? Yes. Does the holy spirit also have a throne? No. The throne Jesus will be on...is the throne of the Father. They are not separate images. That leads to idolatry. It leads to worshipping a false image of God.

Good Morning, Wateredseeds. Your son is ADORABLE, btw! That is a really cute picture too. ( I miss my son being that little )

Although I agree with you on a lot of things, this time I have to respectfully disagree with you, sorry. But that's okay, none of us have it right 100%. And we won't get it 100% right until we are in Heaven. Until then we will have these disagreements, unfortunately.

With that said, unto the topic of the OP:

Genesis 1:26 says,

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...”

'Who' is this “us” and “our” God is speaking of here?

[baydoll]

And also, what is this 'image' and 'after our likeness' in which is spoken there?

(Edited: bolding the word 'likeness' for clarification. )

[wateredseeds]

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature."-Colossians 1:15

Colossians calls Jesus THE image of the invisible God. Not A IMAGE.

"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person"-Hebrews 1:3a

Jesus is also called the EXPRESS IMAGE of the PERSON of the Father. Jesus is called the IMAGE of the Father....what is hard about that. He is not a dublicate image...he is THE image.

Now, i don't think this is a salvation issue...and yes, it is a disagreement that shouldn't be a big deal. But I don't see the bible supporting multiple images of God. There is only 1 image ever shown. You could argue that He is manifest in 3 ways...even that he is operating as 3 persons if you want...but you can't argue that there is only one image of God. You won't get support from the bible ANYWHERE to support multiple images of God.

[wateredseeds]

www.facebook.com/v/10152191924750183

[baydoll]

I can't get on Facebook.

[wateredseeds]

www.facebook.com/v/10152032375710183


That's too bad. They aren't on youtube....otherwise i could embed them.

[wateredseeds]

static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v1/y2/r/5l8_EVv_jyW.swf?v=10152032375710183&ev=0

[wateredseeds]

try that one. If that works...i can post more.

[baydoll]

Oct 20, 2012 13:32:11 GMT -5 @wateredseeds said:

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature."-Colossians 1:15

Colossians calls Jesus THE image of the invisible God. Not A IMAGE.

"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person"-Hebrews 1:3a

Jesus is also called the EXPRESS IMAGE of the PERSON of the Father. Jesus is called the IMAGE of the Father....what is hard about that. He is not a dublicate image...he is THE image.

Now, i don't think this is a salvation issue...and yes, it is a disagreement that shouldn't be a big deal. But I don't see the bible supporting multiple images of God. There is only 1 image ever shown. You could argue that He is manifest in 3 ways...even that he is operating as 3 persons if you want...but you can't argue that there is only one image of God. You won't get support from the bible ANYWHERE to support multiple images of God.

Thank you for that, wateredseeds but that doesn't really 'answer' my question.

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...”

'Who' is this “us” and “our” God is speaking of when He said 'let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness...' ?

To me the use of 'us' and 'our' would indicate another person. 'Us' and 'our' image and 'our' likeness would indicate another person as well.

And furthermore since I didn't articulate it very well in my prior post:

God uses the word 'image' there. So what image was this and who was it fashioned after?

[baydoll]

sorry still can't access it.

[wateredseeds]

Dang it. I signed out of my facebook...and tried to look at it. Looks like my wife has it set to private. If could embed it...that would be pretty great.

[wateredseeds]

[wateredseeds]

Well, there's a picture with his puppy at least. The videos are so great though. Wish i could get them on here.