“Free Grace,” The Devil’s Joke

[PrisonerOfHope]

Excellent article, IMO. There are so many who call themselves Christians, and think all they have to do is wave their arms in the air, shout "Hallelujia!" and say they believe in Jesus.

Sure, we all "fall" into sin...but there's a difference between slipping up and planning to sin.


“Free Grace,” The Devil’s Joke

Free grace does not exist, but the free gift of grace does. Ask the Father if grace was free and He will answer, “It wasn’t for me!” Ask the Son what the price of grace was and His answer will be, “It cost Me My life!” The modern church has stripped the cross of Jesus Christ of all of its pain and suffering for those who will embrace it. The people that embrace this new compromise are as spiritually dead as the theologians that preach it.

A cross that costs nothing means nothing. The faith that shook the world during church history was always a faith that costs the followers everything — the deeper the embrace and the greater the sacrifice, the greater the impact. Find any adherent that is a part of this “free grace” mentality and you will find a spineless and soft religion. Nothing but a religious club of giddy worldliness can result from such cheap grace.

Grace costs the Father His only Son! What a price that Heaven had to pay to purchase man back to the family of God! Sin did not just separate man from God; it defiled and robbed Him of his very God-like character. Sin is as vile as the serpent that was its first mouthpiece. The Jewel of Heaven was the Father’s Only Son. He alone speaks the perfect revelations. When God created light, the Son of God was the light bearer. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). Our God paid the ultimate price for grace through the gift of His Son.

The price of grace for the Son of God was beyond words. To leave His Father sitting on His majestic throne must have filled this great Heavenly temple with utter sadness. The Son could not come to earth as the Prince He was, but He humbled Himself to be stripped of His divine robe. From birth to death, someone was constantly seeking His destruction.

Only His childlike innocence saved His early years from torments. His first sermon in Nazareth ended with a mob trying to cast Him off a cliff. He was not just crucified, He was emaciated. Isaiah described His torture, “As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men” (Isaiah 52:14). Every possible abuse was used to render Him despicable. But, grace was the master of His every abuse and He died triumphantly.

Even the Holy Spirit paid an unreal price in bringing the action of grace to the reach of humans. Every moment of Christ’s earthly pilgrimage was overshadowed by the Spirit of grace. From His conception as the child in the womb of Mary until that same Spirit quickened His emaciated figure in the garden tomb, the Holy Spirit gave life to the sacrifice. There is no way that this third member of the Godhead did not grieve with the price the Son was required to pay. But, the Holy Spirit never withheld the strength of grace that protected the offering for sin until the sacrifice could utter, “It is finished” (John 19:30).

The two words, “free” and “grace,” appear in the Bible one time in the same verse. “But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many” (Romans 5:15). Apostle Paul, speaking by the Holy Ghost, explained the working of this grace and proved infinitely that it is a free gift but only to those persons ready to die to self with Him. “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (Romans 6:1-2).

This is the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and the working of His free gift of grace. Grace from Christ and death to self is the heartbeat of this gospel. Cheap grace has produced an apostate church. This apostle of Christ lays down the character of grace. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin” (Romans 6:4-7).

The church is dead because those that profess Christ have not been willing to put their flesh on the cross in death to the old man. We have the exact words to show what is missing. “Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” (Romans 6:11-14).

The Son of God summed it up as He taught His disciples, “And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me” (Luke 9:23). Grace is totally unearned. There are not any good works that can buy or merit our salvation. The life of Christ is a free gift that is given to every person that surrenders wholly to Him. He will give you His all when He has your all.


www.pawcreek.org/salty-saints/%E2%80%9Cfree-grace%E2%80%9D-the-devil%E2%80%99s-joke

[wateredseeds]

While i agree that the cost of grace was not free, the gift of grace is. The cost was heavy....and it was a cost that was paid for by JESUS CHRIST ALONE. To ask that followers die to self in order to receive that grace, makes the gift no longer free....and also makes it no longer a gift. This is lordship salvation, that teaches that one must die to self in order to avail yourself of grace. We die to ourselves not to avail ourselves of grace, but because grace has already been applied. In order to understand this, one only needs to ask themselves one question:

When Jesus died on the cross, did it pay the price for ALL OF MY SINS....or just some of them?

If the answer is all of them, then there is absolutely nothing you can do to add or take away from that grace......all you can do is trust in the security of salvation through the shed blood of Christ. You cannot make grace conditional upon anything other than faith, and you cannot add to that by demanding works....or that one dies to themselves. That is to add to the grace of God.

I've never heard anyone articulate that there wasn't a price to pay for grace....but it's amazing to me that so many people claim that the price that was paid wasn't paid in full by Jesus Christ. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot claim that Jesus PAID IT ALL...but then demand that grace is not applied unless someone dies to themself. He either paid it all or He didn't. You cannot have it both ways.

[wateredseeds]

This is not an excuse for sin. Paul tells us the consequences for living a sinful and fruitless life in 1 Corinthians 3. We will find ourselves without reward, we will be sorrowful that we did not work harder....but we will be saved yet so as by fire. Even if a person only accepts Christ as savior...and NEVER progresses in their salvation past a basic understanding of Jesus as Savior...they will still have the blood of Christ applied to their sin. They will still find themselves saved....but they will also find themselves empty handed and without reward. That is the consequence of living for yourself rather than for God.

[PrisonerOfHope]

Yes, Jesus' sacrifice covered all of our sins, but many use that as an excuse to sin. He said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." One may claim that they love the Lord, but do they really, if they carelessly just pile more and more of their intentional sins upon Him?

A friend was telling me she was talking to a young man who said he was a Christian, and in the next sentence mentioned he was living with his girlfriend. When she told him he shouldn't be doing that, he replied that he could do anything he wanted, because Jesus paid for ALL his sins!

I honestly don't believe someone who is genuinely saved can repeatedly and intentionally keep on sinning. Slipping up is one thing; planning to sin is another.

[wateredseeds]

POH,

I would say that the young man doesn't understand the eternal consequence of sin....even as a believer. If he genuinely believes that Jesus died for His sins...then he can actually live with his girlfriend...live a life however he wants...and still be SAVED. However, if he understood the consequences of living an ungodly life, and that it will have an eternal impact on his rewards and position in the kingdom of heaven....he probably wouldn't be so casual about it.

Charles Stanley had a similar story in his book "Eternal Security". A young man had been living an earthly life, and doing whatever he wanted. He was saved, and believed Jesus died for his sins. It wasn't until Dr. Stanley started preaching on the Bema Seat judgment that the young man started to change. He hadn't ever realized that there was a consequence for living how he wants to. The failing that we as christians have nowadays....is that we don't preach anything but salvation. We need to see people form salvation to discipleship. Of course not all of us are called to be evangelists, not all of us are called to be teachers....but the first thing that i try to do after i preach the gospel to someone, is help them understand that just because they are saved, doesn't mean they can live however they want without consequence. A lot of people try to attack the Bema Seat judgment because they don't want to be held accountable as believers. They say we will all "be the same" in heaven. We will NOT all be the same in heaven. Sadly, i will probably find myself in a very low position because i have had a lot of sin in my life over the years...and haven't done a good enough job listening to the Holy Ghost. But i try hard to.....and i hope that it's done some good to glorify my God.

[PrisonerOfHope]

I would say that the young man doesn't understand the eternal consequence of sin....even as a believer. If he genuinely believes that Jesus died for His sins...then he can actually live with his girlfriend...live a life however he wants...and still be SAVED.

I'm calling BS on that. If he's truly a believer and genuinely seeking the Lord, the Holy Spirit is going to bring him under conviction; the only "excuse" I'd see is the guy is a day-old Christian. The guy my friend spoke to didn't want to hear that fornication is wrong...he said it was OK to do anything he wanted, because "grace covers it." Willfully sin? Sure, why not? Just heap it on Jesus.... Is that how you treat someone you purport to love?

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries...Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." ~ Heb. 10:26-32


As for Eternal Security, it's a false doctrine. This generation takes sin lightly - everything is a "sickness" or a "mistake," they don't want to hear they're sinners in needs of repentance. They're gambling with their eternal souls, and a lot of them are in for a rude awakening.

[wateredseeds]

I still disagree. Yes, it is an abominable thing to willfully sin. However....most sin is willful. When you say a cuss word...do you say it willfully? The tongue is a hard thing to tame, and yet we sin more with our tongue probably than anything else. How does God judge HIS HOUSE? If we fail to confess our sins, then He CHASTENS US. God will put us under His authority as our Father. The trajedy is, that most people don't consider the eternal consequence of sinning....as a believer. We will not be cast into hell for our sin....because Jesus paid the price for ALL of our sins. We will be found without reward......it will be burned up, and we will experience great sorrow. Did you ever wonder why people in heaven will be crying?

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."-Revelation 21:4

At our judgment....we will be sorrowful if we didn't live our lives for HIM. That will be the FINAL TIME when tears fall from our eyes. After the judgment....there will be no more sorrow...no more sin....no more death. But the judgment comes first....and many will be sorrowful.

[emortimer]

OK here is my 2 cents...wait had to pull up my pants

ok ok

God knows we are not worthy and we are stupid and unable to follow His commandments all the time...we SIN we are SIN so He sent Jesus to take away our sin...now we are to LOVE Him and follow Him...well that means we do all we can to live the way He has told us to live...we will fall short and there is no way around that...we must do with all our heart what He commands

So knowing what you are doing is a SIN and still doing it is not to smart and I am beating that He will frown at us for doing that...we will get into Heaven

Think of it this way... you love your kids and they love you..well if they do what you tell them not to do..are you upset? do you punish them? or do you say well I gave you a pass so go do what you want?


Thank be sure to tip your waiters I will be here all night

[wateredseeds]

emortimer,

Do you stop taking care of your child because they disobey you? You punish them and they still do bad......do you stop loving them? The fact is....they are your child, and you will always love them. It is this way with God. He loves us so much.....that once we are his......we can't ever be taken out of his hands.

[PrisonerOfHope]

Funny how often lately I'll wonder about something in the Word, and God puts the answer right in front of me. Mike Hoggard just covered the subject - and no, he does not believe in OSAS:

harpazo.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=media&action=display&thread=6561

[emortimer]

Jul 26, 2012 22:44:10 GMT -5 @wateredseeds said:

emortimer,

Do you stop taking care of your child because they disobey you? You punish them and they still do bad......do you stop loving them? The fact is....they are your child, and you will always love them. It is this way with God. He loves us so much.....that once we are his......we can't ever be taken out of his hands.

Correct always love but you still spank that butt

[baydoll]

Jul 27, 2012 0:59:09 GMT -5 PrisonerOfHope said:

Funny how often lately I'll wonder about something in the Word, and God puts the answer right in front of me. Mike Hoggard just covered the subject - and no, he does not believe in OSAS:

harpazo.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=media&action=display&thread=6561

Arlene you know I think the world of you and you are one of my bestest friend and I agree with you on a lot of things but I totally disagree with you on this, as much as it pains me to say so. And in the same vein, as much as I admire the Hogman and agree with him on a lot of things I absolutely disagree with him on this as well.

It isn't what we do that gets us in heaven but in what Christ DID for us pure and simple. PERIOD. End of discussion. Anything else is legalistic. No if and or buts about it.

The following pretty much explains my beliefs on being Eternally Secure in Christ:

Question:

But what about people who live like Christians, and then turn away from Christ? Didn’t they lose their salvation?

Well, given the previous passages we must say that they could not lose their salvation. Instead, the bible asks were they saved to begin with? Jesus said, “I am the door of the sheep … He who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber” (John 10:7, 1). So Jesus acknowledges that amongst his flock are false sheep, who crept in like robbers. These people appear for a time like Christians, but because they did not truly enter by Christ (trusting and believing in him) the shepherd will one day drive them out for the sake of his flock. The apostle John wrote that “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us” (1 John 1:19). People who turn from Christ, never trusted in Christ. Those who trust him “continue with us.” And it’s a grace that such people leave, before they do great damage to God’s church as false teachers, and liars


Question:

All of this is good theology, but does it really effect my spiritual life?

Sincerely I say, yes! If it is true that we can lose our salvation we become either fearful or prideful Christians. We may live in fear, because we live in sin and constantly wonder whether this sin or that sin will cause us to lose our salvation. As our guilt increases, exhaustion overwhelms us, and after years of struggling we feel like there’s no hope for salvation. However, we may also live in pride because we blind ourselves to our sin, thinking that our continued salvation is our own work. We thank ourselves, not God for our salvation and pridefully look on those who do not work hard enough to stay saved.

However, if we trust that God alone upholds our salvation, it does not produce spiritual laziness, but profound gratefulness and confidence. My salvation is beyond my own ability to claim or lose, so I am not fearfully wallowing in guilt, but sincerely repenting and rejoicing. My savior is perfect in power, and strong to save. He is faithful to bring me to spiritual maturity (Phil. 1:6). Our graciousness to him, and our confidence in his future promises (which we cannot lose) overflow into good works, not out of fear or pride, but out of joy for my savior’s work.

(Author: Patrick K. Miller)

[baydoll]

Jul 25, 2012 12:53:16 GMT -5 PrisonerOfHope said:

As for Eternal Security, it's a false doctrine. This generation takes sin lightly - everything is a "sickness" or a "mistake," they don't want to hear they're sinners in needs of repentance. They're gambling with their eternal souls, and a lot of them are in for a rude awakening.

I totally believe in Eternal Security and I don't take sin lightly at all...and I know a lot of believers who believe the same as I do and not one of them take sin lightly nor do you see any one of us constantly sinning or living in sin. Chances are those whom you described are not Christians. If they think they are it's only because they are deluded. And they are deluding others too. They make the rest of us (whom really ARE true Christians) look bad.

Just because someone says they are a Christian doesn't mean it's true. A LOT of wolves out there, you know. And it isn't hard to spot them.

(edited: someong is not a word. )

[baydoll]

Jul 27, 2012 6:53:17 GMT -5 emortimer said:

Jul 26, 2012 22:44:10 GMT -5 @wateredseeds said:

emortimer,

Do you stop taking care of your child because they disobey you? You punish them and they still do bad......do you stop loving them? The fact is....they are your child, and you will always love them. It is this way with God. He loves us so much.....that once we are his......we can't ever be taken out of his hands.

Correct always love but you still spank that butt

lol! True. Or knock upside the head a few times. ;D

[PrisonerOfHope]

I'm looking forward to the second part of Hoggie's message. Like he says, you can't live like the devil and expect to get to heaven.

[wateredseeds]

I agree with Dr. Charles Stanley on this. The only thing that saves you is the sacrifice of Jesus. One you accept that sacrifice, as the sacrifice for sin.....you are saved. Once you are saved....you can NEVER be unsaved. The sacrifice remains....which is why we are not to CONTINUALLY SACRIFICE him over and over(that sounds familiar). Jesus paid it all....once for ALL MY SIN.

As to state and standing, if i continue in sin....it will not take away from my salvation.

As to glory and reward....it WILL TAKE AWAY FROM MY REWARD, BUT I WILL STILL BE SAVED. I promise you that there will be a lot of people there that you never thought would be there....and there will be a lot of people you thought would be there that won't....because they didn't actually trust in Jesus' sacrifice alone.

[PrisonerOfHope]

Dr. Stanley is WRONG.

Listen to Hoggie's message - as he says, OSAS is NOT in the Bible.

[baydoll]

Jul 27, 2012 12:51:24 GMT -5 PrisonerOfHope said:

I'm looking forward to the second part of Hoggie's message. Like he says, you can't live like the devil and expect to get to heaven.

Those who are 'living like the devil' and yet claim to 'be' Christians probably aren't. Their 'fruits' are giving them clean away.

Hint, hint: 'those people' are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Galatians 2:4
Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery—

2 Corinthians 11:13
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

Matthew 7:15-20
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ...

[baydoll]

Jul 27, 2012 14:15:58 GMT -5 PrisonerOfHope said:

Dr. Stanley is WRONG.

Listen to Hoggie's message - as he says, OSAS is NOT in the Bible.

No Arlene. Dr. Stanley is right on this one (and I agree with David's post). It's Mike Hoggart who is wrong. I agree with him on a lot of things and he is my brother in Christ but in this he is dead wrong.

OSAS is all over the Bible.



Can a born again
Christian ever lose his salvation?

by Terry Watkins

Can a Christian ever lose their salvation? Can someone who has truly been saved ever be lost?

What saith the scriptures?

Salvation is BELIEVING in Jesus Christ


Salvation is trusting or believing in, by faith, that Jesus Christ paid for your sins with His blood on the cross of Calvary.


"He that BELIEVETH on the Son hath everlasting life:. . ." John 3:36

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16


We are NOT saved by WORKS


The Bible makes it clear that OUR WORKS has nothing whatsoever to do with our salvation.

We don't receive it by our works — and we don't keep it by our works!


" NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,. . ." Titus 3:5

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8,9


Salvation is a FREE GIFT


Salvation is the free gift of God. If we had to work to keep it — it would not be a free gift — and God would be a liar!


". . . the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23

". . .by the righteousness of one THE FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:18

Salvation is a NEW BIRTH.


Salvation is not enduring or a process, but an event in time. Salvation is a NEW BIRTH. Just as your first birth happened on a certain time and day, so does the second birth.


"(For he saith, I have heard thee in a TIME accepted, and in THE DAY OF SALVATION have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted TIME; behold, now is THE DAY OF SALVATION.)" 2 Corinthians 6:2

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be BORN AGAIN, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3

"Being BORN AGAIN, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23

You become a CHILD OF GOD


Once you are born again SPIRITUALLY — you become a child of God.

"Beloved, NOW are we the SONS OF GOD, . . ." 1 John 3:2

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of ADOPTION, whereby we cry, Abba, FATHER." Romans 8:15

Nothing can SEPARATE us from our Father


Just as nothing can "negate" your physical birth, nothing can "negate" your spiritual birth.

My children will always be my children. We may have troubled times. Our fellowship may be broken, but our relationship can never be broken. They will always be my children. Nothing or nobody can change that! And once you are born again spiritually — God becomes your Father — nothing or nobody can change that! Your fellowship may be broken, but your relationship can never be broken!


"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38

"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:2

Jesus will NEVER leave us


Jesus promised He will never leave us. Jesus could not say this if there was even a chance of losing our salvation.


". . .for he hath said, I WILL NEVER LEAVE THEE, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5

". . . and, lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:20

We already HAVE eternal life


When the Bible speaks of possessing eternal life, it speaks in the present tense (hath, have, etc.) — SOMETHING WE ALREADY HAVE! If we had to work or endure to keep our salvation, this could not be true.


"He that believeth on the Son HATH EVERLASTING LIFE:.. ." John 3:36

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE,. . ." 1 John 5:13

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE,. . ." John 5:2

Jesus will NOT cast you out


". . . him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT." John 6:37

We are COMPLETE in Jesus Christ


"And ye are COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power:" Colossians 2:10

We are PERFECTED FOR EVER


We are "perfected for ever" by Jesus Christ. How could the Lord say such a bold statement if we had to earn or keep our salvation?


"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL. . . For by one offering he hath PERFECTED FOR EVER them that are sanctified." Hebrews 10:10,14


We are PRESERVED in Christ Jesus


"Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED IN JESUS CHRIST, and called:" Jude 1


"And THE LORD. . . WILL PRESERVE ME unto his heavenly kingdom:. . ." 2 Timothy 4:18


We are KEPT by the POWER of God


"Who are KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:5

"Now unto him that is able TO KEEP YOU from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy," Jude 24


We are saved to the UTTERMOST


"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the UTTERMOST that come unto God by him,. . ." Hebrews 7:25

We are SEALED until the day of redemption


"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby YE ARE SEALED unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30

". . .after that ye believed, YE WERE SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise," Ephesians 1:13

What about the BACKSLIDER?


What about the "backslider" or somebody that forsakes the Lord? The Bible says he will suffer loss (rewards, etc.) — but he himself shall be saved!


"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

We become the BODY OF CHRIST


"For we are MEMBERS OF HIS BODY, of his flesh, and of his bones." Ephesians 5:30

"Now ye are the BODY OF CHRIST, and members in particular." 1 Corinthians 12:18

What if we later — BELIEVE NOT?


Our salvation is so secure — even if we BELIEVE NOT after we're saved, because we become part of Him (the body of Christ), ". . .yet he abideth faithful: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF."


"If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF." 2 Timothy 2:13

But what if I sin an awful sin?


1 Corinthians 5 reports of an awful sin in the church. And even though Paul commands ". . . To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh" — Paul still speaks of that person being saved — ". . .that the spirit MAY BE SAVED. . ."


"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. . .To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus." 1 Corinthians 5:1,5

To lose your salvation — makes God a LIAR


With all the PROMISES from God to KEEP you, to SAVE you, to PRESERVE you — to even suggest you could lose your salvation — is to call God a LIAR!

". . .he that BELIEVETH NOT GOD hath made him a LIAR; . . ." 1 John 5:10

[wateredseeds]

^^^^^^^

Baydoll is right. AMEN!

[PrisonerOfHope]

That's preposterous. What you're essentially saying is, if someone decides they don't want to go to heaven after all, throw away their gift of salvation, and live like the devil, God's going to drag them into heaven against their will. Were that the case, He'd drag everyone in. You underestimate the importance He puts on free will.

You - and Charles Stanley - are wrong, to the detriment of many who believe that unscriptural nonsense.

[PrisonerOfHope]

Know God's Word

A blog about the importance of knowing God's Word.
"Once Saved/Always Saved" Is Heresy

Friends,
I have been contending for years about a certain doctrine that I believe to be the cause, more than any other doctrine, of the damnation of many so-called “Christians”. It is that doctrine that teaches that once a person genuinely prays “the sinner’s prayer” that he or she is henceforth saved, and will, no matter what (even after living a life of blatant sin), inherit eternal life. It is known as “Once Saved, Always Saved”, or OSAS, as it is often termed in written form.

Many adherents to this doctrine like to quote Rom. 4:7,8 about God forgiving and covering sins. The context is contrasting works and Old Testament Law with faith. It’s true that we definitely read that we are now no longer under the law at all or any of its commands or “works”. “We have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.” (Rom. 7:6) (So if we have the Spirit, we will serve in that new way.) Okay. Hopefully, that can be agreed upon. Now, Rom. 4:7,8 is a quote from Ps. 32:1,2. But if one goes to that context it says that those who are forgiven are those “in whose spirit is no deceit” (v. 2) and who “acknowledge their sin, do not cover up their iniquity, and who confess their transgressions to the LORD.” (See v. 5) Someone living in sin is not doing that. Therefore their sins are not forgiven –as Heb. 10:26, just one passage out of many, makes clear –as we compare Scripture with Scripture and study the contexts.

There is another verse that many in the OSAS group mention. It is Romans 5:1 –”Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,” and verse 2 continues, “through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.” That says, “through faith”, “through our Lord Jesus Christ”, and “through whom”… In other words, Christ is the way, the road, the gate –into grace– and our faith in Him is that which applies this extended grace to our own selves. Then it says, “in which we now stand.” So if we are not now standing in Christ, “abiding in Him” –”remaining in Him” as Jesus commands us to continuously do in John 15:1-8 in order to “bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be My disciples”, then “every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.” (Luke 3:9) “For faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” (James 2:17) And v. 20 –”Faith without deeds is useless.” And v. 24: “You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” Deeds, action, behavior, is absolutely part of the equation. Actions always are a part of belief, and that goes for inaction too of course. (Example: If I don’t really believe that my boss will fire me for doing nothing on the job, then if I’m the lazy type, I certainly will do nothing.)

Now, since the issue in question may be “faith” itself, let’s discuss the word “faith”. Someone wrote this to me once: “Paul establishes that it is faith in Christ that justifies a believer before a Holy God. He then goes on to write about the destiny of all those who are justified by faith in Romans 8:30. He writes, Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.” I would ask this person: Is there a guarantee in there of eternal life for anyone who defects, turns back, turns away, deserts, disowns, or is faithless or disloyal in following Christ? Anyone who would say “yes” is reading something into it that is not there. Other Scriptures inform us that those that are justified are those “living in” Christ. And I’m sure if one has studied some Greek, you know that these type of verses are in the present continuous tense. It is not about a one time commitment. It is about an ongoing loyalty.

The word “faith” does not mean merely “to believe something is true.” We know this also from verses such as James 2:19 –”…even the demons believe –and shudder.” They shudder because, though they know full well that Jesus “died for all” (2 Cor. 5:15), they have not placed their trust in Jesus. So faith –not having exactly the same meaning as “belief”– is actually closer in meaning to the word “trust”. The dictionary definitions say that “faith” means: “Allegiance to duty or a person; loyalty; fidelity to one’s promises; complete confidence in something for which there is no proof; trust.” And “trust” in the dictionary says, “To place confidence in; depend on; entrust the custody of without misgiving; faithful to the conditions of some relationship.” And “faithful” in turn means “steadfast in the observance of duty; loyal; constant; having unswerving adherence to a person or thing.”

I believe that much of the evangelical world does not own up to what the word “faith” means. It does not just mean belief. It means “believing enough to trust, follow, and obey –with loyalty.” And “loyalty” means “until the end.” Jesus told us in Matt. 4:19, “Come, follow Me.” How can we do that if we are instead adhering to the lordship of ourselves, the world, or some idol in our life? It’s impossible. We are either “controlled and led by the sinful nature which brings death” (see Rom. 8:6,13) OR “by the Spirit which leads to life”. (See 8:11,13,14) This “death” means spiritual death. The context of the word “death” (or “die”, “dead”, etc.) in Scripture, when it is in the context of the word “sin”, will reveal this.

Here’s several verses to support what I mean:

*Gen. 2:17 –”… for when you eat of it [if you disobey Me] you will surely die.”

*Ezek. 33:18 –”If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it.”

*Luke 15:24 –”For this [wayward] son of mine was dead and is alive again.”

*Gal. 6:8 –”The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.” What is being compared in the context? “Eternal life with destruction.” Therefore, the “destruction” is an eternal destruction (eternal death.) So: “Spirit-controlled behavior reaps eternal life. Sinful-nature behavior reaps eternal death.” And the next verse (v. 9) admonishes us: “Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest IF we do not give up.” We must continue “doing good.”

*Rom. 6:16 also speaks of the word “death”. –”Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey –whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?” That context is about “being freed from sin” because “our old self has been crucified with Christ.” (v. 6,7) Let’s compare that to Gal. 5:24 –”Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.” This then stands to reason that those who have not crucified the sinful nature are not in Christ Jesus. Right? So why are all these preachers and theologians telling us that we carry around two natures? 2 Cor. 5:17 says “If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” That’s what baptism signifies: The old self having been killed; the new creation having “been raised with Christ.” (Col. 3:1) (See also Rom. 6:11) “For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.” (Col. 3:3)

Now let’s look at some verses (though there’s scores and scores more of them) that speak of our continuous free choice to either walk closely in the truth, following Jesus, or to turn away from (to desert) Him by being disloyal to His commands:

**Luke 22:32 –”But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail.” It’d be strange for Jesus to say this, or take the time to pray this, if it were not possible that Simon’s faith did indeed have the potential or ability to fail.

**John 6:66 –”From this time [context: after hearing a "hard teaching" --v. 60] many of His disciples turned back and no longer followed Him.”

**Luke 8:13 –”They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.”

**Matt. 18:27,34,35 –”The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go. …[Later]… In anger his master turned him over to the jailers until he should pay back all he owed. This is how My heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from the heart.” This man lost his once justified standing with the king! Why? The reason was not based on his belief in the king, or the forgiveness he sought and got, but was based on his later actions!!!

**1 Tim. 1:19 –”Some have rejected these [context: "fighting the good fight, holding on to faith and a good conscience" --v. 18] and so have shipwrecked their faith.” A wrecked ship doesn’t repetitively “wreck into sin, then please Christ with their faith; wreck into sin, then please Christ…” And one can’t shipwreck a ship that never was.

**1 Tim. 6:10,21 –”Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith… and in so doing have wandered from the faith.” “Wander FROM” does not mean “abide in.”

**1 Tim. 5:8 –”If anyone does ["does" is an action word] … he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” Here again, it is action, not belief, that will damn.

**Heb. 6:4-6 –”It is impossible for those who have… shared in the Holy Spirit… if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance…” One can’t share in the Holy Spirit, if one doesn’t have Him. This speaks of those who have Him, then fall away.

**2 Peter 3:17 –”Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.” It’s secure only as one remains in Christ –obedient to the truth, shunning error and lawlessness (sin).

**1 Tim. 4:16 –”Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because IF you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” If you don’t, you will not save yourself and your hearers.

Now let’s look at some verses concerning sin in the life of a believer: (I do not necessarily equate the word “believer” with a person who “overcomes and thus inherits eternal life”; because remember, “even the demons believe…”)

*2 Tim. 2:19 –”Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.” Is not all sin wickedness? And the context speaks of those whose ungodly teachings are causing them to “wander away from the truth.” (v. 18)

*Titus 1:16 –”They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him.” Here it is actions, not the claiming of belief, that matters.

*Rev. 3:16 –”Because you are lukewarm –neither hot nor cold– [this whole context implies there is already belief] I am about to spit you out of My mouth.” “Spit out” does not equal eternal life.

*1 Peter 3:12 –”The Lord is against those who do evil.” Actions again.

*John 14:15 –”If you love Me, you will obey what I command.” What Jesus says here does not support the attitude, “I have faith (loyalty to Christ) but gotta keep disobeying Him daily cuz I can’t help it.”

*1 John 2:4 –”The man who says, ‘I know Him,’ but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth [Jesus] is not in him.”

*1 John 3:6 –”No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him.” How blatant is that? And if one does not KNOW Him, the next verse says…

*2 Thes. 1:8,9 –”Those who do not know God and do not obey… will be punished with everlasting destruction…” To escape Hell, obedience is necessary.

*Rev. 3:4,5 –”A few people… have not soiled their clothes… He who overcomes… I will never erase his name from the book of life…” Those who don’t remain pure and do not overcome get their names erased.

*Matt. 5:8 –”Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.” Those who are impure in heart will not see God.

*Eph. 5:5,6 –”For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person… has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ… Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.” Again, it’s about actions, not about belief.

*1 John 1:6 –”If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in the darkness [sin], we lie…”

*Luke 8:21 –”He [Jesus] replied, ‘My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.’” Again –obedience is required to be in His family.

*Luke 8:28 –”He [Jesus] replied, ‘Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

*James 1:27 –”Religion that God our Father accepts… to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” Here we see our wills, our free choice, is still involved.

*James 4:4 –”Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.” To sin makes one a friend of the world; and enemies of God don’t inherit eternal life.
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*1 Thes. 1:9,10 –”…you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven… –Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.” Serve idols = wrath. Serve God = being rescued by Jesus.

*Acts 26:20 –”I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.” Deeds will show a repentant (or non-repentant) heart. “Repentant” –present tense– in continuous “repentance mode.”

*Heb. 10:26-31 –”If we deliberately keep on sinning after having a knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left… [because that person has] treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and… has insulted the Spirit of grace…” Notice that past tense form of the word “sanctified”. And notice what happens to this once sanctified person who insults the Spirit of grace –who is “the Spirit of Jesus” (Acts 16:7) –”the Spirit of God… [and] the Spirit of Christ.” (Rom. 8:9)

*1 John 3:5 –”He appeared so that He might take away our sins.” “Take away” means just that. Not “I’ll save you from the penalty of sin, imputing to you my righteousness so that it doesn’t matter if you keep on sinning.” No, sin is of the devil and v. 8 says, “He who does what is sinful is of the devil.” We know that anyone “of the devil” is not a child of God for v. 10 says, “This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; neither is anyone who does not love his brother.” It’s not rocket science. Those who say we cannot know what kingdom someone is in because we can’t see the heart… well, to that Jesus says, “The things that come out of the mouth come from the heart” (Matt. 15:18), and so by listening to them and watching their lives Jesus says in Matt. 7:20, “Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them” –if they be false bad trees OR good, righteous trees. (See context.)

*1 John 3:7 –”Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray [with their huge, cunning false doctrines]. He who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous.” We ourselves are righteous as we rest IN Him because we DO righteously. For as v. 9 says, “No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s nature abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.”

*John 5:29 –”…those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.” Jesus speaks of actions here.

*Matt. 13:41,42 –”The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Notice that even those who CAUSE the sinning will be damned. And false teachers do cause sinning. OSAS teachers are giving a false sense of security to hoards of church-goers, allowing for the tolerance of daily sin, and these teachers have been repeatedly and thoroughly warned by Scripture (that they say they read) –but whose eyes, hearts, and minds are dull and blind to the truth. Of them Gal. 1:9 speaks: “If we or an angel from heaven is preaching to you a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!”

I don’t want anyone condemned. So I continue to warn. And I warn especially the teachers. That’s who Jesus often targeted too: “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.” (Matt. 23:15)

I could go on and on quoting verses to support what I’m saying. In fact, I think I could quote almost the entire Bible! Because the whole thing, see, comes against these false doctrines. It’s just that people don’t read it; or if they do, they read it haphazardly, while distracted, only in a group, or at church (no one-on-one time which is needed for any close relationship –including the one with The Counselor)… or they study it with the aid of some commentary of a false teacher –those very same ones who “want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.” (1 Tim. 1:7) It’s all crazy.

And worse than crazy. It’s sending people to the place that was intended for Satan and his demons. But he wants very badly to bring humans there with him, and “that brood of vipers –those teachers of the law” (See Matt. 23:33,29) are helping him do just that!

knowgodsword.wordpress.com/sermons/once-savedalways-saved-is-heresy/

[wateredseeds]

If obedience is required for salvation...then NO ONE IS SAVED.

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."-Romans 5:4

While Charles Stanley doesn't believe someone who had faith can then not be saved.....i would say that i'm not sure on that one. But i AM 100% SURE....that someone who truly trusts in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for their sins, is saved....even if they don't live a life in obedience to Him. My brother got saved at a young age, just like me. Unlike me, he has lived a life filled with generally ignoring a call to live righteously. However, if you ask him what he believes....he can articulate it for you. He will tell you that he believes in the sacrifice of Jesus that paid the price for his sins. What's going to happen to him? He'll get to heaven....but his reward will be burned up.

[baydoll]

Jul 28, 2012 13:03:54 GMT -5 PrisonerOfHope said:

That's preposterous. What you're essentially saying is, if someone decides they don't want to go to heaven after all, throw away their gift of salvation, and live like the devil, God's going to drag them into heaven against their will. Were that the case, He'd drag everyone in. You underestimate the importance He puts on free will.

You - and Charles Stanley - are wrong, to the detriment of many who believe that unscriptural nonsense.

You're not getting it. And I posted all kinds of Scripture stating we have assurance of our salvation. I can post much more than what I posted. It is all over the bible!

Do you see yourself ever deciding that one day you don't want heaven after all, and throwing this gift away and going off to live like the devil? Seriously?

No I'm not underestimating free will at all. Those 'Christians' never 'chose' Jesus in the first place. Their 'free will' was to wear the Christian label and continue to do what they want to do, live the way they want to live. Nothing's changed. Why? Because they've never been saved! They've never 'put on' or live for Christ that's obvious to see. They are those who try to bypass the gate and get in through some other way. They are THIEVES. They have never been born again, they don't even know one is supposed to be born again in order to get into Heaven. They think just because they go to church, have been baptized as babies or think they do 'good deeds' so on and so forth which makes them a Christian but they are DECEIVED. And they are deceiving you.

Their fruits give them away! And you don't question their being Christian and think, Hey! That Christian guy (or girl) lives like the devil, he/she is throwing their gift away! So therefore OSAS is bullhockey! WRONG! Those people are bullhockey.

You know what Jesus will say to these people? He will say, Go away... I NEVER knew you. Meaning they were NEVER saved to begin with.

Don't underestimating God's power to save us to the uttermost. And don't underestimate His power to keep us saved to the uttermost. Because it is HIS power to do so, not ours. All His.

If it was up to us then none of us would get into Heaven.

[baydoll]

POH, that's quite a long post to go over, lol! I have a few errands to run but I'll be back later to respond to it.